6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC Enough/Effective for Elk?

[whirlwindjml]

will not equal the energy created my a larger/heavier projectile (same bullet design and similar velocity). Nothing makes up for a bad hit but at the end of the day we try and stack the deck in our favor. In that idea, why would we not look at energy?

I guess that's the part I keep getting confused by cuz it just seems like people comfort themselves with the energy but in all the extensive reading I've done on terminal ballistics the energy plays a limited part in the actual killing. True it contributes to damage but much of it goes through the target with big bullets. So all the numbers that were on the paper saying you got 3,000 lb of energy don't do a lot of good when 1500 lb of it continues on into the bank behind the animal. Yes the energy is important to get the bullet to expand which in my opinion is a far bigger thing to worry about. That's all I'm saying. A sincerely look at all this as interesting sciences not for pleasure of arguing

 

[340 in Va]

I'm not sure how far a 6.5 would poke into a grizzly bear and I don't think I really would like to find out. But I do know I get a pass through at 500 yards on an elk

Just got into the 6.5 world. Carried the RPM with 143 ELD-X as a back-up to Co this year. Would you share what bullet your using?

 

[buzby]

Hello,
I have two rifles that I am deciding on which one of them to make my main go to rifle, one is a 6.5 CM and the other is a 6.5 PRC. The only concern that I have about them is, is that are either 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC effective on elk? I have heard a lot of people go back and forth regarding 6.5 CM for elk. But, I am having a harder time finding info regarding 6.5 PRC on elk. I prefer the 6.5 CM rifle to the 6.5 PRC. So, I guess my real question is 6.5 Creedmoor effective on elk??

I have found a 7mm rem mag that I like, but would rather not spend the cash on something while I already have something that works just fine.

Any and all info and wisdom are appreciated! Thank you!

Here's 49 pages of data. Mostly with the lowly 6.5cm. Lots of dead animals. Lots of necropsy photos. Not much discussion of energy.

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Few more elk, 6.5 CM with 143gr ELD-X. 1,975fps impact, this is the exit with bullet that was caught under the skin- 2,185fps impact- Entrance- Exit through scapula- 2,190fps impact- Entrance point of scapula hitting directly on the joint- With the fascia cleared back to...

rokslide.com

The PRC does the same thing about 150yds further out than the 6.5cm

I'd choose which ever rifle you shoot better, or will practice with more.

 

[whirlwindjml]

Just got into the 6.5 world. Carried the RPM with 143 ELD-X as a back-up to Co this year. Would you share what bullet your using?

On the creedmoor I shot the 143 eldx for years. It makes a nice big hole the tip explodes but the core drives through the animal. Personally I feel like it's about 550 yards although I've seen it pushed farther and it still did expand well. On the 26nosler I shoot a 156 Berger. The berger is quite explosive though.

Both of them have a bigger wound channel then the bullets that the fish and game restricts for use during the muzzleload season here in Idaho. Talk about low energy. If people think using a 6.5 is wrong and the ethics are questioned then they really should go talk to the fish and game here about the muzzleload season. Because that's where I see people having hardest time killing things.

 

[southpa]

I guess that's the part I keep getting confused by cuz it just seems like people comfort themselves with the energy but in all the extensive reading I've done on terminal ballistics the energy plays a limited part in the actual killing. True it contributes to damage but much of it goes through the target with big bullets. So all the numbers that were on the paper saying you got 3,000 lb of energy don't do a lot of good when 1500 lb of it continues on into the bank behind the animal. Yes the energy is important to get the bullet to expand which in my opinion is a far bigger thing to worry about. That's all I'm saying. A sincerely look at all this as interesting sciences not for pleasure of arguing

Again just read post #114. Bigger bullet more energy. I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk but I really don't know how else to spell it out. All a bigger/heavier bullet has to do is leave the darn barrel. Once it's leaves the barrel its carrying more energy then a smaller/lighter bullet. It doesn't matter where it hits or if 1500 pounds of it is in the dirt. It still hit with more energy than a bullet with less energy did. Hahah. This is not rocket surgery. You cannot make something with less weight and energy transfer more weight and energy than something thats has more weight and energy. All of the semantics are not relevant to the point being made. This has been said many times in this thread already. Nobody is advocating that more energy will turn a bad shots good (although it's debatable that the shock will aid in killing a lot faster than a whimpy 6.5 bullet but that is a different debate). You seem to be making that point in defense of the 6.5cm. There's no need to defend your 6.5s if you like them.

 

[340 in Va]

On the creedmoor I shot the 143 eldx for years. It makes a nice big hole the tip explodes but the core drives through the animal. Personally I feel like it's about 550 yards although I've seen it pushed farther and it still did expand well. On the 26nosler I shoot a 156 Berger. The berger is quite explosive though.

Both of them have a bigger wound channel then the bullets that the fish and game restricts for use during the muzzleload season here in Idaho. Talk about low energy. If people think using a 6.5 is wrong and the ethics are questioned then they really should go talk to the fish and game here about the muzzleload season. Because that's where I see people having hardest time killing things.

Thanks, with the RPM running 3100 it should be good to the 600 yd self-imposed range.

 

[Lapuatom]

Both will certainly work! However, I hunted with a 6.5SST a few years ago. Took the new toy instead of choosing one of several more suitable options. I got my elk with some luck and a good angle but, I sure felt undergunned the whole trip. Won't do that again!
If a 6.5 will do, a 7 will do it better so let's just take a 338 to be sure… is my philosophy going forward.
Good luck with your hunt!

No such thing as too dead!

 

[bobinpa]

So how much energy are we hitting an elk with in the muzzleload season?

Mine delivered a little over 2500 lbs of energy, according to the ballistic calculators....

 

[whirlwindjml]

still hit with more energy than a bullet with less energy did.

Actually this isn't really about defending the 6.5 .
It's about what you're stating about energy. You think because your bullet hits that all that energy is dumped into the animal but is not how it works. It has to dissipate into the animal and not all of that energy does that, that's all the point I'm making is the number that's on your ballistic paper is not the same amount that gets transferred into the animal. Sure a lot of it gets transferred into the animal but a lot of it leaves with the bullet. That's why so many people are just fine with smaller bullets that are dumping the energy in the animal enough to cause a reasonably quick death..

If your theory is that you should go off of a higher energy number then by all means go for it.

Richard Lee's modern reloading had a good section on terminal ballistics.

 

[whirlwindjml]

Mine delivered a little over 2500 lbs of energy, according to the ballistic calculators....

And what are you shooting. We are allowed LEaD only and people here aren't getting 2500 lb of energy at 100 yards with our restrictions.

 

[southpa]

Actually this isn't really about defending the 6.5 .
It's about what you're stating about energy. You think because your bullet hits that all that energy is dumped into the animal but is not how it works. It has to dissipate into the animal and not all of that energy does that, that's all the point I'm making is the number that's on your ballistic paper is not the same amount that gets transferred into the animal. Sure a lot of it gets transferred into the animal but a lot of it leaves with the bullet. That's why so many people are just fine with smaller bullets that are dumping the energy in the animal enough to cause a reasonably quick death..

If your theory is that you should go off of a higher energy number then by all means go for it.

Richard Lee's modern reloading had a good section on terminal ballistics.

Man, YOU ARE saying that. You are the only one who is talking about it. You're agreeing/arguing with yourself. There are no theories being made here. Post #114 isn't a theory.

 

[whirlwindjml]

The end of post 114 is what brought up what I'm talking about but that's okay we did apparently don't understand each other.

 

[bobinpa]

And what are you shooting. We are allowed LEaD only and people here aren't getting 2500 lb of energy at 100 yards with our restrictions.

That was from my Arrowhead custom inline in .45 cal. 1 in 20 twist Brux barrel on a Remington action shooting 327 grain Parker Black Max bullets sized to bore at 2450 FPS with Blackhorn 209. Delivers 2526 Ft Lbs of energy at 300 Yards. Killed a small 6x6 bull in unit 36 NM in 2020. The bull didn't like it one bit....

 

[whirlwindjml]

That was from my Arrowhead custom inline in .45 cal. 1 in 20 twist Brux barrel on a Remington action shooting 327 grain Parker Black Max bullets sized to bore at 2450 FPS with Blackhorn 209. Delivers 2526 Ft Lbs of energy at 300 Yards. Killed a small 6x6 bull in unit 36 NM in 2020. The bull didn't like it one bit....

Well we don't get to hunt with hot rodded stuff like that here although I wish they would let us because what we get to set out with really isn't that great unless you're very close and very accurate. Most people are using a power belt bullet and I have found the little green wad inside of an elk that have survived the hit. Lots of discussion with people with on their frustrations. We used to at least be able to use a Sabbot. And those are the Hornady xtp seem to kill just fine even at slower speeds.