6.5 prc enough gun for elk

[Brad Quarnberg]

I respect your opinion so thanks for sharing.
In my experience, western hunting is a challenge with animals usually found at longer distances. Some hunters set a distance they won't shoot beyond, what their max range will be until they see a big rack, (doesn't matter if it's an elk, deer...) and will in many cases will go beyond the max range they set for themselves and flub the shot. I've been on a lot of recoveries of big game animals over the years that were marginally hit in spite of the shooter thinking it was a good hit. In some cases, the animals suffered for hours before found and a follow up shot was taken, in other cases they were found dead several miles from the site of the shot after several days. And others were found several hundred yards away, and very dead.
Again, me personally, I won't go after an elk with a 6.5 PRC. I've never lost an elk shot with my 300wsm, and the one I lost, (shot with a 270 many years ago), right through the boiler room at 200 yards (saw the hit and the blood), ran into some trees down a small ravine past another hunter who took a running shot and then claimed it as it went down right after his shot. He had buddies, all armed and bristling, when I said there was only one hole and the blood trail proved I had shot it, so I walked away.
That's when I started using a 300WM and eventually a 300WSM with minimum 200gr bullet (preference is 210gr) for elk and I've never lost another elk either to a bad hit or another hunter.
Again, just my experience and my personal minimum caliber for elk.

 

[memtb]

300wsm is a cool round, but I fail to see how you're really getting that much more out of it than 6.5PRC.

Diameter? +1.1mm.

Energy? Only at closer range. By 400yds they're within 10% of each other and at every distance closer than that the PRC is going to be well above 2k ftlbs of energy, which is 25% more than the conventional minimum. I'm not convinced that the same elk getting hit with 2.5k energy is any less dead than one getting hit by 3k energy. Both are dead animals (shot placement obviously).

Weight? Maybe some consideration there- 156gr vs 200gr is +25%, but a .300BLK also has a 200gr option too and I'd never consider that for an elk at any range. The gain in weight of 300wsm comes at the cost of speed, so your net energy is roughly nullified.

I wouldn't argue the 6.5PRC is a "better" elk round than .300wsm (*exception: recoil sensitivite shooters), but I'm not fully convinced that you're getting a huge step up either. I'd think if you overlayed them both on a vinn diagram there might only be something like 5-10% of shots where the wsm does the job and the prc was insufficient. And virtually all of those scenarios would be poor shots at close range- unlikely for an experienced/competent shooter.
If you can't make a good shot on a huge animal at close/mid range, neither of these are good choices and you should just get a 375H&H and get within 100yds.

It's not the size difference in mm or inches….it's the percentage!

Also, a 5-10 % improvement in kills…..is not insignificant!

Last but not least…..where did you get the idea that the .375 H&H is only a 100 yard rifle! It'll work pretty well easily out to 500 yards!


Just a few points to consider! memtb

 

[h_1ag]

It's not the size difference in mm or inches….it's the percentage!

Also, a 5-10 % improvement in kills…..is not insignificant!

Last but not least…..where did you get the idea that the .375 H&H is only a 100 yard rifle! It'll work pretty well easily out to 500 yards!


Just a few points to consider! memtb

A 7.6mm bullet is not dramatically larger than 6.5mm. When we get up to .338 (8.5) diameter is becoming significant (25%).

5%, 10%, 1%, 25%, Whatever- pick any number you like because there's not a true means of proving that animal A would have died if shot by cartridge B, but terminal ballistics tells us that the same ballistic concepts (velocity, penetration, energy, etc.) that cause a 300wsm to be lethal are present at very similar levels when using 6.5prc. My point here is simply that the gap between the two is fairly small and just how small is a quibble. But we should all be able to agree that the main advantages of 300wsm are poor shots at close range, so if that's your hunting plan- that's your chambering!

.375 H&H is (obviously) effective at longer ranges… but it's not effective for guys that can't shoot well at shorter ranges anyway.

 

[memtb]

A 7.6mm bullet is not dramatically larger than 6.5mm. When we get up to .338 (8.5) diameter is becoming significant (25%).

5%, 10%, 1%, 25%, Whatever- pick any number you like because there's not a true means of proving that animal A would have died if shot by cartridge B, but terminal ballistics tells us that the same ballistic concepts (velocity, penetration, energy, etc.) that cause a 300wsm to be lethal are present at very similar levels when using 6.5prc. My point here is simply that the gap between the two is fairly small and just how small is a quibble. But we should all be able to agree that the main advantages of 300wsm are poor shots at close range, so if that's your hunting plan- that's your chambering!

.375 H&H is (obviously) effective at longer ranges… but it's not effective for guys that can't shoot well at shorter ranges anyway.

I'll try to keep it simple for ya, poor shots are not planned …whether they are up close or long distance!

Often things happen beyond our control…..except on the internet! memtb

 

[Txcowboy50]

300wsm is a cool round, but I fail to see how you're really getting that much more out of it than 6.5PRC.

Diameter? +1.1mm.

Energy? Only at closer range. By 400yds they're within 10% of each other and at every distance closer than that the PRC is going to be well above 2k ftlbs of energy, which is 25% more than the conventional minimum. I'm not convinced that the same elk getting hit with 2.5k energy is any less dead than one getting hit by 3k energy. Both are dead animals (shot placement obviously).

Weight? Maybe some consideration there- 156gr vs 200gr is +25%, but a .300BLK also has a 200gr option too and I'd never consider that for an elk at any range. The gain in weight of 300wsm comes at the cost of speed, so your net energy is roughly nullified.

I wouldn't argue the 6.5PRC is a "better" elk round than .300wsm (*exception: recoil sensitivite shooters), but I'm not fully convinced that you're getting a huge step up either. I'd think if you overlayed them both on a vinn diagram there might only be something like 5-10% of shots where the wsm does the job and the prc was insufficient. And virtually all of those scenarios would be poor shots at close range- unlikely for an experienced/competent shooter.
If you can't make a good shot on a huge animal at close/mid range, neither of these are good choices and you should just get a 375H&H and get within 100yds.

I agree and I love the 6.5 PRC, but like I said, it is more of a hobby and I want to see what the 300wsm will do. I built a rifle with a Zermatt T3 action and Proof prefit CF barrel. I am simply changing the barrel. That being said my hunting load for the 6.5 prc is156 gr Berger EH over H1000. They have a mv of 2950 and at 500yd 2297 ft/sec and 1828 ft-lb of energy according to Berger Ballistic Calculator. This round is a consistently shoots less than 1/2 moa. The 300WSN loaded with 195 gr Berger EH @2870 has a velocity of 2290 ft/sec and 2270 ft-lbs of energy; that nearly 25% more energy down range. Hopefully with tweaking I can get the accuracy to less than 1/2 moa at range. Only breaking in the barrel with Federal premium 185 berger VLD at stated mv of 2950ft/sec. First shots one ragged hole. I could not believe it. Maybe I will forget reloading.

 

[h_1ag]

I agree and I love the 6.5 PRC, but like I said, it is more of a hobby and I want to see what the 300wsm will do. I built a rifle with a Zermatt T3 action and Proof prefit CF barrel. I am simply changing the barrel. That being said my hunting load for the 6.5 prc is156 gr Berger EH over H1000. They have a mv of 2950 and at 500yd 2297 ft/sec and 1828 ft-lb of energy according to Berger Ballistic Calculator. This round is a consistently shoots less than 1/2 moa. The 300WSN loaded with 195 gr Berger EH @2870 has a velocity of 2290 ft/sec and 2270 ft-lbs of energy; that nearly 25% more energy down range. Hopefully with tweaking I can get the accuracy to less than 1/2 moa at range. Only breaking in the barrel with Federal premium 185 berger VLD at stated mv of 2950ft/sec. First shots one ragged hole. I could not believe it. Maybe I will forget reloading.

I did not know your 300wsm load and looked at an industry standard for reference- 200gr Hornady Eldx is 1969ftlbs @ 500, which is <100 ftlbs greater than my PRC load (1,886).

My Zeiss and Hornady apps both have my 2,950mv 156gr Bergers yielding +2,330fps and +1,880ftlbs @ 500, so I wonder what the discrepancy is there between that and Berger's. You must be using Mils! Haha.

Both are great cartridges and I'm eager to see if the additional recoil yields any meaningful difference in terminal performance for you.

 

[Rick Richard]

I agree and I love the 6.5 PRC, but like I said, it is more of a hobby and I want to see what the 300wsm will do. I built a rifle with a Zermatt T3 action and Proof prefit CF barrel. I am simply changing the barrel. That being said my hunting load for the 6.5 prc is156 gr Berger EH over H1000. They have a mv of 2950 and at 500yd 2297 ft/sec and 1828 ft-lb of energy according to Berger Ballistic Calculator. This round is a consistently shoots less than 1/2 moa. The 300WSN loaded with 195 gr Berger EH @2870 has a velocity of 2290 ft/sec and 2270 ft-lbs of energy; that nearly 25% more energy down range. Hopefully with tweaking I can get the accuracy to less than 1/2 moa at range. Only breaking in the barrel with Federal premium 185 berger VLD at stated mv of 2950ft/sec. First shots one ragged hole. I could not believe it. Maybe I will forget reloading.

I am getting 3057 fps from a 26 inch barrel using 180 Berger Elites and H4350. Ragged hole accuracy.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

If using your 6.5 prc just know its limits and yours. People that say 6mm or 6.5 kill elk the same as heavy .30 or .338 simply just havent seen enough elk die or have only stayed within the parameters of 6.5prc. I personally wouldnt shoot elk with 6.5 prc but if i were id limit it too 200 yards. I killed a crap ton of rosies as a kid with 25-06 i learned real quick it was no comparison too a 300 win mag. As i got older and shoot further i shoot lapua improved. Like anything practice with the tool you intend to use and know its capabilities, and understand a bull elk can be tough. Ive found rosies to be much tougher then the rockies but they are just like us some tougher then others.

 

[Coors Man 264]

6.5 PRC is good to go for elk

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

oh thats right, yes I meant 7prc...
I usually just tell the wife these things just procreate in the safe, but dont listen to me I always get in trouble.

Same here

 

[huntforfood]

There was previous thread talk of energy and velocity comparisons, say .30 cal vs 6.5 cal, and seems like that and the bullet diameter is not that much different BUT, take the same comparable bullet with these two calibers (berger hybrid or bonded bullet) shoot them into mud and you will notice that the larger cal show a more dramatic expansion diameter than just the few thousands of an inch when the bullet is unfired. This is just not apparent until you see them for yourself, in hand. My point, that expansion diameter is way more volume on the larger cals and with proportional velocity and mass to penetrate through vitals, the volume of damage through that animals volume should always be much better/larger. After digging up various expanded calibers in the mud from target shooting paper, it is very obvious that what is small diameter differences in a cartridge makes for a much larger mushroom volume. Also, the large mass of the mushroom has momentum and mass to sustain that volume through larger animal chest cavities ad contact heavy bone. I have plenty of 270s and 6.5 prc, but if I am going elk than it is gonna be 30 cals.

 

[Jon L.]

Ok the largest caliber I now own is 6.5prc … considering doing an elk hunt for the first time . Would I be better suited doing a 7prc or possibly even 300prc … I've never left the Hawaiian islands to hunt before so I'm thinking a 300prc might be a bit much on axis deer and pigs after… I chosen those calibers due to inherent accuracy of cartridges, I'll be using factory ammo as supplies for reloading suck here. Thanks

I have taken several Elk here in Wyoming with my 6.5X284 and 140 grain Berger bullets. The ballistics are nearly identical to the 6.5PRC. Assuming that you place your shot where it needs to be the 6.5PRC will also be perfect for your hunts in Hawaii.

Good Hunting

 

[Majestic 6.5]

I was trying to figure out if he was being serious.

I've shot a lot of animals with 6.5mm cartridges and 30 caliber cartridges and I have NEVER seen a 6.5mm projectile cause more trauma and internal damage than a 30 caliber projectile unless you are comparing say a very slow 30 cal vs a very fast 6.5mm. Also comparing a frangible bullet to a bonded bullet isn't an equal comparison either.

.264 WM left a softball size exit wound at 100 yds broa
dside on a cow Elk. It took off for an incredible 10 yards.

 

[rlshrumva]

I think your bullet choice is very important as well. Copper or bonded is the typical best choice for elk. And for me the 6.5 is a little marginal due to a big animal with big bones. If you're trying to talk yourself in to a new rifle, in my opinion bigger is better for elk.