Thoughts on Hammers on elk (out of a 6.5 CM)

[Shootin4fun]

Not really tracking with ya on that, the ONLY difference is effective range. That bullet does the same thing at an impact speed of 2400 on an elk regardless of if it's started out from a Creed or 6.5 RUM!!
A 6.5-300 WBY is just Creedmore with a couple hundred extra yards on it!!

Wouldn't the higher velocity at a given range result in a larger wound channel, especially secondary cavitation?

 

[laker]

Wouldn't the higher velocity at a given range result in a larger wound channel, especially secondary cavitation?

Of course higher velocity will result in a larger wound channel. But if both hit elk at 2400fps wound channel will be the same. The creedmoor will just be hitting that fps at a closer distance than the wby

 

[Shootin4fun]

Here's 4 bullets. Two of them are 6.5 and two are 7mm. One 6.5 is a 140 Berger shot at creedmoor velocities and one is a 140 Berger shot at 3000fps. One 7mm bullet is a 160 grain accubond shot at 3250 FPS and one is a 168 grain accubondlr shot at 2900fps. All pulled from elk. All elk died with no drama. Tell me which bullet is which.
View attachment 377721

Some guys have all the luck. Multiple elk hunts in their lives, others of us never draw a tag. So I guess by the sound of it a 6.5 cm with 123 hammer leaving at 2900 is as good as a 7RM with a 145 LRX doing 3150 for example, what I thought of using. Or 168 berger. both rifles shooting < .5MOA.

 

[Shootin4fun]

Of course higher velocity will result in a larger wound channel. But if both hit elk at 2400fps wound channel will be the same. The creedmoor will just be hitting that fps at a closer distance than the wby

Shot them at the same distance, that's the a to a comparison.

 

[laker]

Shot them at the same distance, that's the a to a comparison.

I bet both end up with an elk hitting the turf

 

[laker]

Some guys have all the luck. Multiple elk hunts in their lives, others of us never draw a tag. So I guess by the sound of it a 6.5 cm with 123 hammer leaving at 2900 is as good as a 7RM with a 145 LRX doing 3150 for example, what I thought of using. Or 168 berger. both rifles shooting < .5MOA.

I think they are more alike than people like to admit

 

[bigngreen]

Shot them at the same distance, that's the a to a comparison.

You won't see much difference with a Hammer, between a 6.5 Creed hit or a 6.5 Sherman hit, seen a pile of the two out of the same box of bullets.
You will start seeing the difference on the end of their range where the faster start just gives you a little more functional distance.
The consistency of function and wound channels over a broader velocity range is probably my favorite thing about Hammers, above their lower limit you know what your getting for a round channel.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The only Creed that I have shot an elk with was a 6mm Creed running the 88g Hammer Hunter. Running a bit over 3300 fps. Shot distance on big old cow about 300y. First shot a bit high, dropped her and second shot ended it. Bullet performance was perfect. I shot a 30" aoudad with a 6.5 rpm with a 115g Power Hammer running about 3300 fps. Shot distance 150y through both shoulders. Ram dropped straight down, done. Took the same rpm to Africa in April running the 110g Hammer Hunter at 3500 fps. Took a management Impala at about 100y quartered to on point of shoulder. Traveled about 30 feet. Shot a trophy waterbuck at about 150y. Shot was a bit high and a bit back. Not a good spot to hit a waterbuck. He ran about 60y and piled up. Heard him for within a few seconds. If you don't know, a trophy bull waterbuck is about 700 lbs. Same trip Brian brought his 6.5x284 running the 124g Hammer Hunter at about 3250 fps. He shot all of his animals with this setup. Trophy red hartebeest, trophy golden wildebeest, management blue wildebeest, trophy golden wildebeest, trophy waterbuck, and ostrich. All one and done with no tracking, except the ostrich took two. First shot was not vital and second shot on the run dropped it. Brian also took an rpm on the aoudad hunt. He was running the 134g Power Hammer at about 3100 fps. He took a 34" ram with two shots. First shot at about 250 yards to far back. Ram never took a step just stayed there very sick. Second shot at about 100y quartered to on the point of the shoulder. Ram went about 15y down a steep hill into a pile.

The 124g 6.5mm Hammer Hunter is our most popular bullet. Selling as much as the next 3 most popular combined. We get lots of success stories from customers on elk. I don't have hard numbers but I can say pretty confidently that we have more elk under that bullet than any other bullet we sell. The vast majority of those, I'm sure, are fired from creedmoors.

I have never been much interested in the 6.5 Creed until we came out with the 85g Hammer Hunter. My new 20" barrel Creed is just waiting for it's suppressor to arrive. Expecting it to run about 3500 fps. Now the Creed is interesting to me. It will be going to Africa in Sept and I am intending to pack it for my Montana hunting this year. Will post results.

I have yet to see a rifle running Hammers accurately at short range that drops off accuracy at long range. Shooting a Hammer that needs more twist than what the rifle has could cause this. In other words, marginally stable.

 

[dogz]

Great stuff Steve!

Thx 4 chiming in

 

[brant89]

TLDR, but if you can hit your mark and stay off the shoulder above the minimum expansion velocity you should have a dead elk. I was pretty impressed with their terminal performance on my buddies black bear last fall.

 

[dogz]

Brant-you have me curious as to what in your experience of killing elk has motivated you to say to stay off the shoulder?

 

[brant89]

Brant-you have me curious as to what in your experience of killing elk has motivated you to say to stay off the shoulder?

No experience in killing elk as of yet, which is precisely why I recommended staying off the shoulder. Are elk shoulders as tough as everyone seems to suggest…I don't know, never shot one. Based on my experience with those bullets in a similar caliber, am I confident that they would penetrate the ribs deep enough to put a hole in both lungs on an elk…absolutely.

 

[dogz]

No experience and you've never shot one and yet your telling people to stay off the shoulders eh...? Sorry to bosh you so hard, just being feisty this am...

For what it's worth I've punched thru the blade with my 22/250 and 63 Sierra's and 60 Horn HP. Real world punching thru the shoulder blade isn't the big bad spooky thing that people like to make it up to be...just my experience

IMO, the need to stay off shoulders is something that's been parroted for eons, starting mainly by gun writers who had just enough experience to be dangerous! I know of a lot of High school kids who have more experience in killing elk than most gun writers

 

[-JLS-]

I've seen a few elk shoulders broken (the humerus is actually much thicker than the scapula) by an 85 grain TSX out of a .243. That said, aim for the > and you watch them fall over with a few steps usually.