Zeiss vs. Nightforce

[scottyd2506]

I dont blame ya,I am surprised you hung in there this long.

Rob

Seems a good portion of Nightforce owners get a little heated when you tell them they don't have the best optics on earth. so it weighs 5 lbs, does that means it's stronger? maybe!. The US M60 Tank (Vietnam and early 70's) weighs more than a M1A2 Abrams tank, But guess what one is stronger?????

Some people who own items, if you tell them they may not have the best, they get mad enough to cook an egg on their head. You have to feed the ego to keep things cool,, as the truth is a pain to bear.

Zero Stop! Never said it was worthless, but I do ask what does it bring to the table to help my hunting situation over non zero stop?


sorry, but I'm kinda just getting back into guns and shooting after 5-6- years, other than the occasional twice a year for one day to look up guns for sale etc .
I don't have many months time invested to keep up on every new feature of every rifle maker, bullet maker, powder maker, primer maker, range finder maker, and scope maker in the past 5 years or so.
5 -6 years ago, Swaro and Leica was the top range finders and Bushnell was trash, now there are brands much better than Swaro, and Bushnell has a great range finder now, back then there was no good long range .277 bullets, now there are, back then Berger Bullets didn't have the hybirds.


I'm sincerely sorry I don't know every new feature on every new item.

have a great day

 

[Hunter2678]

So wait... the target style turrets on my Conquest 6.5-20x50 arent repeatable?!

 

[scottyd2506]

I think it is just a numbers game. The more items you produce, the more you have issues with. I think the internet has given the perception that their overall quality is down. They have never been know for reapeatability on their turrets, but from what I have heard, they are reworking some of their erector assemblies and adding additional springs to aid repeatability. I have several Leupolds, and have only had one issue with one, and it was fixed and back to me within a week or so.

There is more to it than that, I mean people with large magnums are claiming problems, just google a search. I am not sure, Every guy I know back in the 70's and 80's back then swore by Leupold, never knew anyone who had problems with them except maybe one guy, and it was tracking. he sent 2 of them back to Leupold and they fixed them.. Sent it back


I know the optics are better now than 20-30 years ago, but the quality and durability?
Leupold glass was always great, yet my friend goes to the local Gander, and looks through some binoculars, the Nikon, a Leupold and a Swaraski, the $2200 Swaros of course looked the best, but my friend said he thought the Nikon looked better than the Leupold bino's (he owns a Leupold and Nikon scope on his rifles so no favorite bias).

Where does Leupold get the glass from now?

 

[bryguy]

There is more to it than that, I mean people with large magnums are claiming problems, just google a search. I am not sure, Every guy I know back in the 70's and 80's back then swore by Leupold, never knew anyone who had problems with them except maybe one guy, and it was tracking. he sent 2 of them back to Leupold and they fixed them.. Sent it back


I know the optics are better now than 20-30 years ago, but the quality and durability?
Leupold glass was always great, yet my friend goes to the local Gander, and looks through some binoculars, the Nikon, a Leupold and a Swaraski, the $2200 Swaros of course looked the best, but my friend said he thought the Nikon looked better than the Leupold bino's (he owns a Leupold and Nikon scope on his rifles so no favorite bias).

Where does Leupold get the glass from now?

Most of the issue I am seeing with the hard kickers seemed to be braked. From what I understand, a muzzle break is death on scopes(except the higher end ones or the one built like a tank). Not sure where Leupold gets their glass, and not sure the average joe could ever find out for sure. Last LEupold I bought was 5 years ago, and are not on what I would call hard kickers. and they are a 2.5-8 and a 3.5-10, which seem to be proven models. There probably is also pressure coming to increase profits, so there may be a move to cheaper materials, not sure. Or, it could be Freedom group or Cerebus has gotten involved, they seem to have a proven track record of running firarms companies in the ground.

 

[Hunter2678]

Most of the issue I am seeing with the hard kickers seemed to be braked. From what I understand, a muzzle break is death on scopes(except the higher end ones or the one built like a tank). Not sure where Leupold gets their glass, and not sure the average joe could ever find out for sure. Last LEupold I bought was 5 years ago, and are not on what I would call hard kickers. and they are a 2.5-8 and a 3.5-10, which seem to be proven models. There probably is also pressure coming to increase profits, so there may be a move to cheaper materials, not sure. Or, it could be Freedom group or Cerebus has gotten involved, they seem to have a proven track record of running firarms companies in the ground.

Please explain...

 

[BB28MX]

While I do not own either, I have sold plenty of both. Never have I seen a Zeiss with issues, or ever heard of one personally. I have however, seen several Nightforce come to the shop with issues like buffer burned glass, turrets without any clicks, turrets that would not move as well as reticles not level... Mind you all those were straight from the factory and never even made it to the floor. Then there are all the Nightforce that have come back from customers. If I had those two scopes alone as options Zeiss would be what I would shoot.

Bet I'm going to make a few friends with that but with all the issues I've seen with Nightforce I would buy lots of other brands before I bought one of theirs.

 

[bryguy]

Please explain...

No optics expert, but from the way I understand it is that the brake causes a sudden deceleration and that cause the internals to go tits up.

 

[Hunter2678]

No optics expert, but from the way I understand it is that the brake causes a sudden deceleration and that cause the internals to go tits up.

There is still regular recoil, however its been reduced...I do know reverse recoil in air rifles can ruin std rifle scopes not designed for that type of stress.

 

[Hunter2678]

While I do not own either, I have sold plenty of both. Never have I seen a Zeiss with issues, or ever heard of one personally. I have however, seen several Nightforce come to the shop with issues like buffer burned glass, turrets without any clicks, turrets that would not move as well as reticles not level... Mind you all those were straight from the factory and never even made it to the floor. Then there are all the Nightforce that have come back from customers. If I had those two scopes alone as options Zeiss would be what I would shoot.

Bet I'm going to make a few friends with that but with all the issues I've seen with Nightforce I would buy lots of other brands before I bought one of theirs.

them>gun)<you

 

[bryguy]

There is still regular recoil, however its been reduced...I do know reverse recoil in air rifles can ruin std rifle scopes not designed for that type of stress.

I can not remember where I saw it, but the basic premise was that with certain types of brakes, when the round goes off, the rifle starts the normal recoil cycle, and then a few milliseconds later the brake takes effect and basically slams on the 'brakes' (no pun intended) and newtons laws take effect then and eats the internals up on lesser made scopes. Or it could be that Leupold has just started skimping on their parts and that is why they are crapping the bed.

 

[MHO]

NF is by far a better scope. But if 600 yards is the farthest you are shooting, Then I would go with the Zeiss.

 

[scottyd2506]

While I do not own either, I have sold plenty of both. Never have I seen a Zeiss with issues, or ever heard of one personally. I have however, seen several Nightforce come to the shop with issues like buffer burned glass, turrets without any clicks, turrets that would not move as well as reticles not level... Mind you all those were straight from the factory and never even made it to the floor. Then there are all the Nightforce that have come back from customers. If I had those two scopes alone as options Zeiss would be what I would shoot.

Bet I'm going to make a few friends with that but with all the issues I've seen with Nightforce I would buy lots of other brands before I bought one of theirs.

Great info

 

[scottyd2506]

As usual, I am a step behind here. Shouldn't stop in the middle of a post to watch a movie.
Scotty, your posts do not sound like the voice of experience to me. Sounds more like a voice of opinion. I think if you were an experienced long range shooter you would have a better understanding of the value of the zero stop feature.


I still maintain that flawless turret function trumps the best glass, if you only get one or the other.

You sounds like a Nightforce salesman, Zero stop, Zero stop, zero stop...

It is true I've not shot to 1000 yards, Targets and Aniamals to past 500 yes. I've been doing this for over 25 years, back when shooting an animal at over 200 yards was unethical. in the past 5-6-7 years I've not done much real hunting, more a armchair hunter it seems, so yes you are spot on about me.
I am gearing up this year and have much to learn about what is new.

I understand that turret rotation can be confusing if ones does not keep a count.

Your last paragraph tells me your mainly a paper puncher, and your hunting experienceas you quote is "the voice of opinion" "not experience"

Sorry to have to mirror your words back at you, but low light performance is huge where we hunt, sure we have big fields, but deer generally stay by the woods, coyotes also. nice and bright in the field, darker in the woods.
perhaps if your viewing a wooded area with your nightforce, from 500 yards, and you see nothing, pack up and go home, you just tell your self you have the best scope on earth and Go home!

the guy 100 yards next to you might have that 18 point White tail in the crosshairs of his Sawro or Zeiss that he can just make out that you seen total darkness! one guy has ZERO STOP, the other guy has 250 lbs of MEAT in his freezer.

To me Hunting performance is much more important than paper punching only.
I would take a 600 yard limit scope that has superior glass to a mediocre glass scope that shoot to over 1000 yards ANYDAY

We have our own preferences.

 

[COBrad]

Well aren't you a feisty little rascal!
It's all good friend. I would expect that if my mediocre scope possesses sufficient optical qualities for 1K yd shooting, it will probably do at 600 as well. No argument Swaro is really great glass, but for my use I need more than just really great glass. I have lived in western Colorado almost my entire life and have been fortunate to hunt everything that walks or flies here for the past 40 years. Over a long career as a guide and outfitter I had opportunity to look through just about every scope brand I've ever heard of, and there are a lot of good scopes out there, until you start stretching the range and actually have to use your turrets for more than a one time sight in. At that point most don't look so good anymore.
I do a lot of paper punching... and rock shooting in the field, and varmint shooting, and most years shoot a couple of elk and a few other big critters. The elk are easy; big, usually fairly close. I have found that a good eye and skill in spotting game, especially something as big as deer or elk, was of more benefit than a top end scope anyway. You have to learn what to look for, and what it looks like when you see it.
When I was a kid I used an old Weaver K4. Shot a lot of game with that scope, big and small, timber and open ground, poor light or good. I expect that scope would still be all a man would need for most hunting.
Zero stop is just a small and useful feature found on top end scopes intended for long range shooting. It doesn't make you shoot any better or improve your optics, but I believe you already know that.
Obviously you are not shooting to any great distances so there are many features beyond optical quality that you don't need anyway. For those of us that do shoot longer distances, these features are very important, and this is a long range hunting site where most of us actually do shoot far enough to appreciate zero stop and reliable turrets.
Your point about quality glass is quite valid though, and that is why my long range scope is a Schmidt Bender, and my medium range scope, say 6 or 700 yards, is just a 2.5-10 Nightforce...
and both have zero stop and kick *** solid turret function.