Why you need to Understand Vista Outdoors and What They Own

[azsugarbear]

Talk about the perfect storm. All we need now is some liberal billionaire to buy controlling interest in Vista and suddenly watching the front door becomes mute. Gooks in the wire, my friends.

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

This is a time when you go big, or go home. These giant conglomerates have their fingers into everything.
==========/===============
Yep, their fingers are into anyone's wallet who wants to reload or shoot.
But instead of 2 fingers in the wallet for $40, they got a whole fist in your pocket, and its full of cash, maybe $170 for a brick of primers or $50 to $55 for lb. of primer.

And if it was just energy cost or supply chain related, or higher commodity prices, it might recede with inflation going down as the FED sends interest rates high enough to break inflation.

But this looks "structural",
ie, monopolistic, pricing power.
Not much competition, so it probably does not recede much or any......unless foreign imports come way up to create competition or some new entrants start making primers here.

Winchester is the only one making primers here they dont already own.....

Bad juju......

New US Primer Manufacturer Coming -

Until now, only two companies controlled the market for primers in the United States. Olin Corporation through their ownership…

onlygunsandmoney.com

 

[Taylorbok]

Good news fellas... bullets, brass, primers, and powder lasts a LONG time. Buy in bulk. Problem solved.

Easier said than done, I started reloading and shooting way more just before Covid hit. I was able to scrounge up a few boxes/ pounds of what I wanted here and there. Now I am constantly searching for the bullets and powder I want, I've got a decent stash of some built up now but for others I had to resort to other bullets. In Canada here I can't seem to find anyone that ever gets more than a couple boxes/pounds here and there at a time

 

[Rudolph Ferdinand]

Did you know that Vista Outdoors now owns the following ammunition component companies?

Federal Primers and Powder and all Federal products
CCI Primers and all CCI products
Remington Primers and Ammunition
Alliant Powders

They also own Bushnell now.

The big revelation for me in this list is that they now own Alliant too.

One of the big reasons we are probably not seeing Alliant powders is because I understand that maybe most of the Alliant powders are now going to manufactured ammunition under Federal and Remington......

Wonder why Primer Prices have been so inflated lately??? Who owns Federal, CCI, and Remington Primers?

This is what Hodgdon and Winchester are up against.

Seen any RL-26 or Rl 15 thru 25 lately? Not much if any, and if any at $50 and north of there per pound.

Monopolies are no good. Where where the antitrust boys on all this?
Probably helping them consolidate, cause its easier to control that way......

These ain't yore Grandpa's components no more.

I got all the primers I need to reload for; handloading 32 years now inventory 18,000 primers pistols and rifles. No problem finding bullets or powders. Primers the problem. I'm reloading the following cartridges: 6.5 Creedmoor, 308/7.62x51, next up 223 then next 6.5 Grendel (300-500 rounds each, and also for 6.5 CM, and 308 Win.), and between them throw in 22LR just for fun. Enough to last for ten years plus. I gotta lived that long, 70 soon to be 71 - don't shoot that much anymore.

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

The bar keeps being set higher and higher on prices because we keep buying at those prices faster than they can keep them on the shelf. Why would they ever go back to "normal" prices when they know people will still fight people to pay 2-3 times, or even WAY more?

Same goes for gas and many other things. When we become reliant on something, even if it's just a hobby/passion, they know they can set prices and people will still pay. They can give any number of "reason" for the increase and it really doesn't matter.

And yes, monopolies only make this worse. Obviously multiple sources for the same product would create more competitive marketing and pricing. Capitalism is great, but it definitely comes with its own consequences as well. When the rich keep buying up all the competition, it results in a loss for the consumer.

Sure would be nice to see some form of Capitalism.
Govt = Capitalism these days. They make all the decisions when it comes to the markets.

 

[lotech]

Vista has owned Alliant for some time, way before all the happenings of the last three or four years.

 

[lyle2231]

Hypothetically here…. A "show of interest "
How many of "us" would be willing to incorporate, take on debt to get a primer plant up and running along with an import
powder operation? The items needed would be land, building, equipment, staffing, payroll for at least two years, Chemists ain't cheep,
And don't forget the zoning problems associated with this type of operation.
Speaking for myself I'm happy to have what little bit I'm able to obtain and appreciate the efforts of those who are willing to keep their businesses going during JoBi tenure.
Just my 2c. Best regards LP

 

[Texans42]

In the case of litigation, almost 99% of it is against the manufacturers of firearms themselves. Remington got sued and bankrupted by the suits from the School Shooting in Connecticut, not because of making components or ammo, or scopes, or gun oil, or primers or anything else, but because I think they owned Bushmaster through Cereberus or Windham somehow.

All the litigation is against the Winchesters, the Smith and Wessons, the Brownings, the Glocks, the Colts, the DPMS's, etc.

Wonder why no company like Vista has bought out all of the actual firearms makers? What if someone bought colt, browning, winchester, Savage, Mossberg, DPMS, etc. The market in firearms is pretty well fractured, and competitive, and no one is going to try to consolidate that
portion of the market precisely because of the threat of gun control and regulation, and litigation.

Gun oil companies like Hoppes, and scope companies like Bushnell, can certainly stand on their own if they are competitive with good products.

They actually owned Savage for a long time. The CEO of Savage bought the company back from Vista I think in 2020.

If you think they will stop at gun manufacturers… I don't know what to tell you. They will go all the way to ammo and any supporting products.

The example I gave about increasing the staff at Remington is a smart business decision, showing long term growth and viability into the brand.

 

[Texans42]

The main shareholders of Vista Outdoors are not pro 2nd Amendment people.So keeping ammo and reloading supplies at a very limited supply maybe part of a plan.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/what-you-need-to-know-about-vista-outdoor-inc.s-nyse%3Avsto-investor-composition-2021-11-12

4 Issues to Know About Politically Related BlackRock's China Ties - Business World Report

BlackRock Inc., the biggest cash administration company not solely in America however the world, has emerged as an enormous promoter of social and environmental investing and of sending billions of U.S. {dollars} to China. A client advocacy group asserts that New York-based BlackRock’s push for...

www.businessworldreport.com

BlackRock Tied to China’s Leadership, Consumer Group Warns

Of late, China has been facing flak from many countries for its clandestine activities designed to influence businesses

www.nspirement.com

No signal investor or even top 10 combined have controlling authority .

 

[weevil07]

I'm not defending them but remember Remington was dead and headed out of business until Vista purchased them. They also took the barely running Lonoke, AR ammunition plant and revived it to what's the 3rd largest plant in America I believe.

 

[jshepherd61]

Did you know that Vista Outdoors now owns the following ammunition component companies?

Federal Primers and Powder and all Federal products
CCI Primers and all CCI products
Remington Primers and Ammunition
Alliant Powders

They also own Bushnell now.

The big revelation for me in this list is that they now own Alliant too.

One of the big reasons we are probably not seeing Alliant powders is because I understand that maybe most of the Alliant powders are now going to manufactured ammunition under Federal and Remington......

Wonder why Primer Prices have been so inflated lately??? Who owns Federal, CCI, and Remington Primers?

This is what Hodgdon and Winchester are up against.

Seen any RL-26 or Rl 15 thru 25 lately? Not much if any, and if any at $50 and north of there per pound.

Monopolies are no good. Where where the antitrust boys on all this?
Probably helping them consolidate, cause its easier to control that way......

These ain't yore Grandpa's components no more.

Someone needs to file an anti-Trust law suite

 

[Veteran]

Someone needs to file an anti-Trust law suite

Looks like horses are already outta that barn and down the road?
The time for that woulda been during the proposed aquisition at least optimally.....could still be done now, but it would be more like breaking up Standard Oil after the fact.

 

[habituallinestepper]

Be careful not to confuse market share and vertical integration as synonymous with a monopoly. Businesses exist to make money and return value to shareholders.

 

[xsn10s]

A lawsuit against the firearms industry is the last thing we need imo.