Joe Bishop
Well-Known Member
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- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 103
The way things are going I don't think that things will change for us reloader anytime soon. When I see primers/powder/bullets that I can use, I buy them.
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Why you need to Understand Vista Outdoors and What They Own
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Im not sure what is needed is litigation or anti trust at this point.
Like I said, horses are already out the barn. In my mind what is needed is for Vista to raise prices for primers over $200 so more Lonestar plants get built quicker, more imports come in from Europe and our market gets flooded w primers, until a new lower equilibrium is established which allows Vista a 12% return on capital, and is affordable to this community.
Right now, the prices are not or are barely affordable to this community, (about like %6 gasoline), and Vista's return on capital in the primer market is likely way north of 15 to 20% even weighting the bulk of their primer sales to their own ammo manufacturers at lower internal transfer prices.
Return on capital for primers for only the reloading component segment has to be far in excess of
50%.
In effect, reloaders who as you point out arent the high volume customer are paying not reasonable premiums but exhorbitant premiums to subsidize the finished ammo market side of their business.
What will change this and make it more fair? Only new entrants and more imports.... Of course if someone does file a suit, abd they get mad and raise prices to $250 a brick, its possible this whole process of new entrants and more imports might actually play out faster?
Its hard to defend too much greed.
Whats the cure for excessive greed?
It becomes unsustainable and cures itself......just ask OPEC. The cure for high prices is high prices.
If and Until that happens…
We will be begging for primers to only be $150/1000
I suppose it comes down to who do you trust more the capitalist or the government? As much as I dislike monopolies I think I trust the capitalist more.
Here's an interesting (and I admit, a bit long) read about the effects on another industry, that of outdoor equipment. Sometimes, as the bean-counters take over, quality suffers. So, I understand the fears here. SlingFin, btw, builds SG tents.
www.slingfin.com
This doesn't seem to be the case with Vista though, at least where Remington is concerned. They had already shot themselves in the foot on quality, and, if we believe the early reports, maybe quality will improve rather than deteriorate.
As far as the cost of primers, let Trump or DeSantis be elected and costs will likely go down, although we'll never see them for $1.99/100. During the middle of Trump's term, they were giving coupons on 9mm, 5.56, and ARs were sitting on the shelves.
I'm personally glad Vista is reviving Remington, and Ruger Marlin, although I won't buy either.
Also glad there's another company making primers.
MZ's Views | SlingFin
SlingFin founder Martin Zemitis has been designing outdoor equipment for decades. He worked at The North Face, Sierra Designs, and Mountain Hardwear prior to founding SlingFin.
www.slingfin.com
This doesn't seem to be the case with Vista though, at least where Remington is concerned. They had already shot themselves in the foot on quality, and, if we believe the early reports, maybe quality will improve rather than deteriorate.
As far as the cost of primers, let Trump or DeSantis be elected and costs will likely go down, although we'll never see them for $1.99/100. During the middle of Trump's term, they were giving coupons on 9mm, 5.56, and ARs were sitting on the shelves.
I'm personally glad Vista is reviving Remington, and Ruger Marlin, although I won't buy either.
Also glad there's another company making primers.
Vista has owned most of these companies for several years, long prior to covid, etc. The are news worthy again due to they are splitting the company into two new corporations . That will basically isolate ammunition and direct related products and the other entity will be outdoor sporting goods. This is to obviously isolate the firearems related products to one entity because of the complaints of liberal stock holders invested in Vista, Soon ammunition related product being from the outdoor products that are less offensive to the liberals, will make them happy. The conspiricy is far larger than most can even imagine. By proxy of liberal investors the same happened to Cerberus which owned Freedom Group, which owned Remington. Liberal investors complain about what types of busines companies they are invested in do. And when their enough stock holders complaining corporations have little choice but to spin off, sell off, etc. the offensive business entities. America really needs to wake up, the fight is really one of economic control. Thesse same liberal stock holders also have a great deal of say in what the corporatiosn lobbyest are doing on the Hill, which is really what influences politicians, We can only vote the in and out, and bearly do that. Due to most people don't really know the politicians stances on the things that matter to them. But big business Corporate world knows or rather buys the politicians votes on key subjects that make them more profits, and it circles back to the stockholders and if there are enough of them that thinks one way or another on any given subject. Usually greed is suffiecient, but many very influential people have figured out to push agendas beyond just greed, they now also push their moral compass. The reality is Vista is just doing what it has to to survive. The managment of Vista where all very much Pro 2A, etc. due to it makes them money and in these times high profits as well from selling everything they can produce. But ultimately the ranks of their investors has a liberal cancer now, that has a moral compass not aligne with people like us here. So it is worth learning who the real eneies here are, it isn't Vista nor its current managment. It is their investors that are forcing changes within the corporation and not just VIsta but many corporations.
Vista Outdoor to Split Into Two Companies
The parent company of CamelBak, Giro, and Camp Chef plans to separate its outdoor business from its ammunition division in 2023
I for one see, read and understand very well what Blackrock and other
Vista Outdoor to Split Into Two Companies
The parent company of CamelBak, Giro, and Camp Chef plans to separate its outdoor business from its ammunition division in 2023www.yahoo.com
liberal anti 2 A, Investors and agenda driven corporations are doing to arm twist, throttle, coerce, and bully anyone they can into their brand of ESG investing, and acting.
Blackrock is one of the worst.
They invest heavily in China, globalism, climate change, and support the DNC, and Bidennomics.
judgebill
Well-Known Member
The only certainties in this world are, traditionally death and taxes. The certainty that isn't often mentioned is change. Everything changes. I began reloading back in the 1950s, for just a couple cartridges. Over the years my interests changed back and forth. For a while I did so little shooting I thought nothing of buying factory ammo...but then there were no limits on how much you could buy and no ID requirements (I live in California).But I invite you to look through some old gun magazines or old Gun Digest books at prices and stories and "evaluations". Look at the costs involved with hunting, the scarcity of shooting ranges, the legislative attacks on hunting and shooting and guns in general. All this is a reflection of changing attitudes and philosophies. I don't like it but I must confess, my grandchildren aren't the least bit interested in hunting or fishing or shooting. Anything. This, my friends, is the changing world we are looking at.
I hope I'm dead before this "brave new world" sees the light of day.
Vista outdoors will be no more on 2023.
www.outsideonline.com
Vista Outdoor to Split into Two Companies
The parent company of CamelBak, Giro, and Camp Chef plans to separate its outdoor business from its ammunition division in 2023
www.outsideonline.com
Calamity
Well-Known Member
Given China's open acquisition of strategic US assets, and their monetary influence (held debt and outright ownership of farms, tech companies, pharmaceutical chains, energy producers, utilities, universities, banks, government, etc) We really need to form private manufacturing and supply coops. That way the debt is private and ownership is distributed. People with common interests, like those in shooting sports, should begin seriously networking to secure the capital, facilities and raw materials to be self supporting manufacturers. The coming election may help, but China already has tentacles throughout our country, and lawmakers in their pockets. They are going to use their control sooner or later. The food supply, water, power, ammunition, transportation and communications are all sensitive resources, and they are becoming unaffordable. I never thought to see this in the USA, but I think it's time to pull our heads out of the sand. We're watching a coup take place, and we're the intended victim.
.300 Dakota
Well-Known Member
And they're ripe for the picking when Bloomberg, Inc. comes calling and offers them $XXX Billion for the whole shooting match (pun intended). He'll sell everything to the military under contract so he can get even richer and we'll be paying for it through tax dollars. This or maybe he'll have it all sold to the Chinese. Or maybe the Chinese will buy it first. You say, well the military has no use for components, etc. No, but the components can be made into military ammo. Some VERY NICE military ammo. Brass can be repurposed to 7.62, 5.56, 7.62x39, etc. Primers and powder can be used as are. Bullets can be recycled to claim lead and copper. Only ball allowed for military. A dear friend of mine and former gunsmith predicted this scenario before there was a conglomerate corporation. How far-fetched do you find this scenario??
