Before Ladder tests were common Knowlege and before I had a chronograph, I would keep increasing my charge weight until groups started to shift from vertical to horizontal. Then I would fine tune powder charge followed by tuning seating depth. So, It was sort of a ladder test before I knew what a ladder test was.
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Ladder Test vs QuickLoad - What do you prefer and why
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Let's go back to this. QL does not indicate tuned loads. It's not for tuning.
Where did you get this 'modelling' notion?
I never said QL is for tuning the load. QL will give you an estimate of the node. No matter which method you choose you still have to fine tune by loading and shooting groups. It really comes down to weather you believe Christopher Long's OBT (that is about harmonics) and that is what QL can help you with. Whether you use OCW, any form of the Ladder Test or QL, you still have to load and shoot groups to fine tune it.
I was asking for input from people who have experience with both, not experience with one and opinion on another that they have not used. I have not used Ladder before. I had used OCW for years. Then I started experimenting with QL and then I heard a lot of people talking about Ladder test. I was looking for a comparison.
Thank you all for your input. I appreciate Ryan and Sherm for pointing me to the right literature for Ladder.
Good Shooting everyone!!!!
I was asking for input from people who have experience with both, not experience with one and opinion on another that they have not used. I have not used Ladder before. I had used OCW for years. Then I started experimenting with QL and then I heard a lot of people talking about Ladder test. I was looking for a comparison.
Thank you all for your input. I appreciate Ryan and Sherm for pointing me to the right literature for Ladder.
Good Shooting everyone!!!!
That is what a lot of people did back then, including myelf
I agree. There are a few other things that QL can not account for. As another member pointed out, the condition of the barrel, brand new or shot out. But it gives me a starting point. I don't know how many times I need to repeat it, unless you load and shoot groups, you don't have anything, no matter what you use. OCW works, just takes a lot of powder and bullets. Ladder works, but I have not tried it yet, I I can not offer an opinion.
Buck Fever
Well-Known Member
That model is garbage until you validate it with actual test results.
I know you are trying to get in the ballpark but one day the high heat is going to catch you in the chin.
I know you are trying to get in the ballpark but one day the high heat is going to catch you in the chin.
Buck Fever
Well-Known Member
Do you start at the top of the ladder or the bottom?
You are trying to start at the top with Quick Load. That's not what it is for.
You are trying to start at the top with Quick Load. That's not what it is for.
Buck Fever
Well-Known Member
By the way, high heat is a baseball term. It's a fastball aimed at your head instead of the strike zone.
I find a node that is safe and gives me the desired velocity. I built a few around around it, basically to get measurements. I calibrate my model and get a better prediction of where the nod COULD be. I load groups that straddle it. Some higher, some lower, and shoot, adjust until I get the desired result. Others might do it differently. Before QL, I used OCW. Before that it was taking a suggested load from Lyman and build groups around it until I found one that worked. Then I read Christopher Longs Optimum Barrel Time. That is all about harmonics. That got me on the new road.
Well high heat doesn't hit me, because I consult several data sources and stay within safe loads
Please don't attack something you have not used. I never attacked the Ladder Method. In fact I spent half the night reading the material suggested to me here and watching an hour long video by rfurman24. I am not looking to convert anyone, I am tying to see if someone built a better mousetrap
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
No it does not.
OBT is not a powder node (OCW). And it's not an accuracy node (as obtained from a ladder). And QuickLoad does not predict anything about tune.
OBT is really a misnomer for 'Bad Barrel Times' (BBT). That is: stay away from these timings, else the bullet could exit at an exact point corresponding with bore/crown expansion. It's hard to buy into that,,, as it would be really really hard to time a bullet exit so exactly, and actual measure would be difficult and expensive.
I've had & used QuickLoad from about 5minutes after it first hit the streets in the USA. Maybe ~25yrs or so.
I don't like or care about OCW, because I want the most accurate loads over most forgiving loads.
Ladders provide indication of most accurate areas to work with. It's basic incremental load development from there.
You are absolutely right of course. Then again, I would let Dan Newberry respond about OCW because I would not do it justice In fact he did, if you are open minded enough to read it.
This is my last statement on the matter. It's a quote attributed to W.E.Deming who improved on the PDCA (Plan, Do Check, Act)
"In God We Trust. Everybody else bring data". That's from a class I took on Toyota Continuous Improvement.
Thank you all for your comments!
Good Shooting Everyone!!!!!
