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Why you need to Understand Vista Outdoors and What They Own

Redfield and Weaver too

Both optics lines are out of production AFAIK. Rings & bases still being sold under Weaver name, mostly from China (?).

Have a US made 3-9x40 US made Redfield on a 77/22 Hornet; bought it that way. S/n says rifle was mfrd mid - 1990's. I think original Redfield was gone by then. Also have a steel tube El Paso Weaver K4 which I used on my Rem 788 in. 308 for many seasons. Took more than its share of white tail & a few coyotes.

Both scopes still bright & clear, hold zero. Think I gave $25 for the K4 in the early 1980's.
 
The main point I think I'm trying to make is that one company now owns all the primer makers in the country except one, Winchester.

I had not personally realized that until now. Maybe I was asleep.
I also not see that the "inflation" on pricing here on primers is not just cost driven but structural and by market power.

Think about a world in which Standard oil was never broken up, and there was only one gasoline supplier for the whole nation.......would that be desirable or have consequences? What would gas prices today be?
Maybe electric cars would have been invented in the 50's?

Do you want whole industries and suppliers to be able to "own" or corner the whole market? Is that acceptable and good for either the nation or capitalism as a economic system? Why did Vista buy Federal, Reminington, and CCI? Was is just a good business deal or was there an element of owning or corning the whole market? Do we have freely competitive market that is well functioning for primers? I'd say we are on the verge of "not so much" there. We either at this point need more new entrants, which capitalism will encourage if the price gets too high, or we need imports from outside the U.S. like Ginex. It will probably be both, but it will require a response from the market to make the prices go to an equilibrium that is lower and sustainable for all concerned. The market needs to self regulate itself. But what will happen if Vista now buys Winchester? There is danger here. I think someone needs to send up a flare and call attention to this at this point. I am glad to raise the issue.

Do I think Vista Outdoors motives are pure as sunshine in all this? Nope, I think they are smart, and aggressive, and they want to make a lot of money, and there is a certain greed factor here because they can and have done this very much on purpose with no regulatory oversight or
intervention that I can see. Maybe I am just unaware of it? Maybe someone said, no don't let them buy CCI because that is a bridge too far, but did that happen......don't think so, but maybe I just don't know.

Am I complaining about it? Yes, because I don't want just one gasoline station called Standard Oil owning all the oil and gasoline stations in America. I don't think that's "American"..... or the American way or even fair. Unbridled capitalism is not a great thing. Capitalism needs some spongy guardrails to keep it on the tracks. Teddy Roosevelt saw that.

Now, if Vista would own Federal, Remington, CCI, and only price primers at $65 per thousand, I might think that's more acceptable and fair from an inflation perspective. But, they have the big stick, they have the market power, and they can charge what they will at this point.

But, I have a feeling, that BR2's at $179 are not going to stick.

I have a feeling primer prices are about peaked, and will at some point be turning down due to more new entrants and imports. And maybe Vista will think about their own social responsibility to their customers, and do they want customers long term who can afford their products?

If I can't buy Federal primers, or Remington primers at a reasonable price why would I want to buy Federal or Remington Ammo?

It gets to be about as ridiculous as 215 Bergers at some point. Its cheaper to buy the finished ammo and take it apart to get the 215 Bergers than to pay $300 a box for a box of bullets.

At some price, we may be buying finished ammo and decapping the primers? Pouring out the RL-26, and salvaging the Berger 215's?

Things go too far sometimes, and companies need to steer a course that is fair and sustainable and remember the customers are stakeholders too.
 
Not real sure you want all those companies standing on their own as Liberals continue to open up litigation abilities against them.

I for one am happy Vista is doing what they are doing. They are strengthening the individual companies. First thing they did with Remington ammo was hirer 60 more people.

Not to mention many of the employees now have ownership ability through ESPP.

Stone Glacier is a perfect example. They have expanded mfg'ing and Kurt and company are still their running it the exact same way except with more capital to capitalize on market growth
 
If they now own Bushnell, did everything that Bushnell had under their bonnet so to speak go along with it? In that case you can add RCBS.com, Primos.com, Hoppes.com, WeaverOptics.com, ChampionTarget.com and ButlerCreek.com to the list.
Yes, they own all of those too. That's shown on their website.
 
You know that berger is owned by Nammo now, right? Nammo is a 7 billion dollar company... vista is a 2.5 billion dollar company. (approximations)

Nammo owns lapua, sk, vihtavouri, and berger... as well as other lesser known entities.

This is a time when you go big, or go home. These giant conglomerates have their fingers into everything.

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Did you know that Vista Outdoors now owns the following ammunition component companies?

Federal Primers and Powder and all Federal products
CCI Primers and all CCI products
Remington Primers and Ammunition
Alliant Powders

They also own Bushnell now.

The big revelation for me in this list is that they now own Alliant too.

One of the big reasons we are probably not seeing Alliant powders is because I understand that maybe most of the Alliant powders are now going to manufactured ammunition under Federal and Remington......

Wonder why Primer Prices have been so inflated lately??? Who owns Federal, CCI, and Remington Primers?

This is what Hodgdon and Winchester are up against.

Seen any RL-26 or Rl 15 thru 25 lately? Not much if any, and if any at $50 and north of there per pound.

Monopolies are no good. Where where the antitrust boys on all this?
Probably helping them consolidate, cause its easier to control that way......

These ain't yore Grandpa's components no more.
It's like 1997 all over again with Federal Mogul buying 45% of the aftermarket automotive and light truck manufacturing companies PCA power bearings national seal prices then skyrocketed from an average one and a half to 3% yearly job or price sheet increase over 14% until quantiative easing just blew things up as the currency collapses
 
The main shareholders of Vista Outdoors are not pro 2nd Amendment people.So keeping ammo and reloading supplies at a very limited supply maybe part of a plan.





 
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Control ammunition you control the guns. You control the guns you control the people!!
People better start paying more attention to everyday life then sports, all sports is is a distraction.
 
You boys are so late to the game, and your conspiracy theories hold no water. Do you know how long Federal has owned ATK (Alliant)? How about CCI? How about who is actually running the Lake City Armament for the government?

Look, it's real simple, our demand exceeds our manufacturing capabilities. Everyone is afraid to grow to meet the current demand because everyone knows it will flop again at some point.

I've been in this industry for 25 years, I've seen it ebb and flow.
To my knowledge, Federal has never owned ATK. Vista owns Federal, CCI, and Alliant Powder though.

Orbital ATK once operated the Lake City, then Northrop bought Orbital ATK, and technically Northrop ran LC for a bit. Then their contract was up and Winchester won the bid and now runs it once again.

Alliant Techsystems bought what was once Hercules Powder, after Hercules powder came from what was once DuPont, and rebranded to Alliant Powder. ATK later bought and merged with Orbital.

Vista Outdoor's came from ATK splitting the brands to separate interests. Alliant Powder went to the Vista side. In 2018, Northrop Grumman bought Orbital ATK, but Vista remained its own entity.

Vista is even allegedly working towards splitting themselves, similar to when ATK spilt and formed Vista, so that Vista will have one side focused more on outdoors products and another focused on ammunition/reloading and firearms stuff.

Just elaborating here is all.
 
Not real sure you want all those companies standing on their own as Liberals continue to open up litigation abilities against them.

I for one am happy Vista is doing what they are doing. They are strengthening the individual companies. First thing they did with Remington ammo was hirer 60 more people.

Not to mention many of the employees now have ownership ability through ESPP.

Stone Glacier is a perfect example. They have expanded mfg'ing and Kurt and company are still their running it the exact same way except with more capital to capitalize on market growth

In the case of litigation, almost 99% of it is against the manufacturers of firearms themselves. Remington got sued and bankrupted by the suits from the School Shooting in Connecticut, not because of making components or ammo, or scopes, or gun oil, or primers or anything else, but because I think they owned Bushmaster through Cereberus or Windham somehow.

All the litigation is against the Winchesters, the Smith and Wessons, the Brownings, the Glocks, the Colts, the DPMS's, etc.

Wonder why no company like Vista has bought out all of the actual firearms makers? What if someone bought colt, browning, winchester, Savage, Mossberg, DPMS, etc. The market in firearms is pretty well fractured, and competitive, and no one is going to try to consolidate that
portion of the market precisely because of the threat of gun control and regulation, and litigation.

Gun oil companies like Hoppes, and scope companies like Bushnell, can certainly stand on their own if they are competitive with good products.
 
Did you know that Vista Outdoors now owns the following ammunition component companies?

Federal Primers and Powder and all Federal products
CCI Primers and all CCI products
Remington Primers and Ammunition
Alliant Powders

They also own Bushnell now.

The big revelation for me in this list is that they now own Alliant too.

One of the big reasons we are probably not seeing Alliant powders is because I understand that maybe most of the Alliant powders are now going to manufactured ammunition under Federal and Remington......

Wonder why Primer Prices have been so inflated lately??? Who owns Federal, CCI, and Remington Primers?

This is what Hodgdon and Winchester are up against.

Seen any RL-26 or Rl 15 thru 25 lately? Not much if any, and if any at $50 and north of there per pound.

Monopolies are no good. Where where the antitrust boys on all this?
Probably helping them consolidate, cause its easier to control that way......

These ain't yore Grandpa's components no more.
The facility will specialize in the production of primers, a key component in ammunition manufacturing, for the small arms industry.

"We have invested $100 million into the site so far," said Richard A. Smissen, owner, Expansion Industries. "This is all about supply and demand. There is serious demand in the industry for this product and right now, for various reasons, the supply chain is falling woefully short. So we are getting ready to do our part to help out with that issue."

Smissen describes the new facility as state-of-the-art, featuring a high level of automation. He said the site at the former Lone Star Army Ammunition plant is uniquely situated for what they will be doing.

"The manufacturing facilities at Lone Star were set up for ammunition manufacturing," said Smissen. "Not only the way the facilities are laid out on the former base, but the facilities themselves are hardened to protect against possible accidents working with this material. What is here was ready for someone like us to come and set up shop. So we've had our people in there getting it ready for a modern manufacturing facility. We aim to be up and running in the first few months of this year."



 
The facility will specialize in the production of primers, a key component in ammunition manufacturing, for the small arms industry.

"We have invested $100 million into the site so far," said Richard A. Smissen, owner, Expansion Industries. "This is all about supply and demand. There is serious demand in the industry for this product and right now, for various reasons, the supply chain is falling woefully short. So we are getting ready to do our part to help out with that issue."

Smissen describes the new facility as state-of-the-art, featuring a high level of automation. He said the site at the former Lone Star Army Ammunition plant is uniquely situated for what they will be doing.

"The manufacturing facilities at Lone Star were set up for ammunition manufacturing," said Smissen. "Not only the way the facilities are laid out on the former base, but the facilities themselves are hardened to protect against possible accidents working with this material. What is here was ready for someone like us to come and set up shop. So we've had our people in there getting it ready for a modern manufacturing facility. We aim to be up and running in the first few months of this year."




Bravo to this, just don't get bought out by Vista!

I will try some Lonestar Gold Match Large Magnum Rifle Primers please.
Please drive the prices down to $65 or less?:)
 
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