Why the 6.5 caliber?

[flylo]

gvjm, If 200 or under go 45/70 or 450 Marlin. Hit a deer anywhere but the legs & tail & they drop in their tracks. I've killed many bear with a 45/70 contender handgun.

 

[wbm]

But what does that have to do with the topic? "Why the 6.5 Caliber"

 

[Timbersquatch]

I think the main reason why the 6.5 bullets are taking off is that you get more for less in a way. You get a mild recoil, high bc, flat shooting bullet that performs just as well as some of the magnum calibers. Granted the magnums will always have more down range energy at longer distances, but if you can do the same with a bullet that doesn't destroy your shoulder than why not. For a guy that doesn't like recoil, the 270s and 6.5s are perfect performers. I think the 270 and 6.5 calibers are some of the best performing rounds out there. I got an odd 6 that I would like to turn into a 6.5-06 when its time to get a new barrel

 

[flylo]

But what does that have to do with the topic? "Why the 6.5 Caliber"

I was replying to this post.
"gvjm said: ↑
I'm still waiting to be wowed. I spent a lot of money building an AR-10 in 6.5 CM. And with 2 harvests under my belt I'm not seeing anything special. But I want to, I really want to! But I've hunted with a lot of calibers looking for that perfect deer round and so far have only been impressed with the 25-06. Others have suffered from overkill and under kill. I think my biggest issue is that I hunt in Texas and shots are almost always under 200 yards. I'm starting to believe that at 200 there a better calibers. But I'm not giving up. I need a few more kills to say definitively."

 

[wbm]

I spent a lot of money building an AR-10 in 6.5 CM. And with 2 harvests under my belt I'm not seeing anything special.

I hear ya. I think most shooters that have a CM are not so much overwhelmed or underwhelmed but sort of in between somewhere. Course you also have the fringe folks that love em or hate em. I have two and really enjoy shooting and loading for them but I don't hunt anymore so no hands on experience there.

 

[Tarheelpwr]

I think it comes down to the old guns that were .264 in diameter. 6.5mm happened to get lucky in that they have almost always been blessed 1:8 twist barrels. So, the bullet manufacturers were able to push the limits without limiting their users. Even the new 156 can be pushed in a 1:8 with reasonable success.

Everything else settled on reasonably slow twists, esp the .257 and .277.

 

[Clark]

The laws of physics, didn't change but politics changes military then Manufacture the advertisement customers believes.

That is what makes the 6.5C the joke that keeps on giving!

 

[rharfo]

Santa gave me this 3 shot group at 200 yards on Christmas Eve. Thanks 6.5 Santa.

 

[wbm]

That is what makes the 6.5C the joke that keeps on giving!

Perhaps the post is the real joke.


Time for the 6.5MM Seminar -101 or Why The 6.5 Caliber?

"Over promise always results in under delivery." Some Greek Sage

The 6.5mm Creedmoor has been the latest "victim" in decades old castigation of the 6.5mm bore size. Therefore, it will be used as the object of the seminar that, hopefully, will dispell the vicious attacks on the venerable six five and provide ample
proof that many of it's critics are calumnious thick-wits at worst or simply ignorant.

Therefore, "I would not, brethren, that ye should remain ignorant....lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;" Romans 11:25

So. You have in the case of the 6.5 Creedmoor, like the 6.5x55 and 6.5x54 that went
before it, some overly optimistic and often misleading claims, backed by hype from gun writers,that eventually prove to be unfounded or untrue.

Now given that you have a 6.5 Creedmoor group that has at times over promised and
under delivered how should one respond to that? Rationally respond that is.

Well there are two ways to respond to that, three actually.

Choice One. You can say the 6.5 Creedmoor is a terrible cartridge
that does not do anything above any other and "I wouldn't
have one!" etc. etc. (Hard to believe the hatred for this cartridge. Some
become absolutely unglued over it... like Dems over Trump.)

Choice Two. You can say the 6.5 Creedmoor does not fulfill all that
was claimed for it but perhaps does have some redeeming characteristics that
may be worth investigating....it's "place in the sun" so to speak.

Now I think we can all agree that Choice One folks, in response to Choice Two folks,
have a rabid almost hysterical following on social media.They are often so biased in
their hatred for the little guy that they refuse all claims of any praise for it and wait
in the bushes to ambush any who claim to admire the little fellow.
This type of behavior has also been termed "CMDS' or Creedmoor derangement syndrome.

Now as reasoning adults we should know that there are three kinds of ignorance,

Normal, Willful, and Terminal.
Normal can be fixed by the acquisition of knowledge. Willful is a choice made
despite knowledge to the contrary and Terminal is the end result of Willful.
Terminal... like stupid...can't be fixed.

So, perhaps a lesson in history would make the 6.5 CM, like it's ancestors, be a bit less threatening and a bit more capable than some would think or desire. This could
also serve as a CMDS help session. Let's consider Africa as our example. Lot's of very big game and lot's of hunters over lot's of decades and lot's of 6.5's, 7x57's and
a few big bores lying about. Just the sort of "testing range" needed for useful data collection.

Lesson1: Enter the 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer in Africa.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/walter-d-m-bell-aka-karamojo-bell.3161/
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/15/handloading-the-65x54-mm-mannlicher-schoenauer/
https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2012/02/shooting-65-creedmoor-african-safari/


Lesson2: Now it should have become apparent that the 6.5mmx54, along with the 6.5x55, was capable as a hunting cartridge in Africa for up to and including elephants. (Personally I would pass on the elephant part...would be happy to simply observe...from long distance) Furthermore, it should also have become apparent that the 6.5 Creedmoor is superior to the 6.5x54 in every ballistic category. You can check that out on your own. If you decide otherwise, consider getting help with cognition or glasses.

Now to bottom lines. Would, given the choice between 6.5x54mm or the 6..5 Creedmoor old Karamojo Bell have chosen the later? You bet he would have! He like all of us was
ignorant about many things but he was not stupid!

So. Would I take a 6.5 Creedmoor to Africa. Probably not! Why? Well because some countries have 7mm as minimum bore size and there are better cartridge choices available...does that make the 6.5mm bore size or the 6.5 Creedmoor to little gun for plains game?...of course not. To persist in that opinion would probably give evidence of...well...something a bit more Terminal.

 

[nicholasjohn]

I think it comes down to the old guns that were .264 in diameter. 6.5mm happened to get lucky in that they have almost always been blessed 1:8 twist barrels. So, the bullet manufacturers were able to push the limits without limiting their users. Even the new 156 can be pushed in a 1:8 with reasonable success.

Everything else settled on reasonably slow twists, esp the .257 and .277.

I think you've nailed it. This isn't so much a surge in popularity in the 6.5mm as it is a thing about fast-twist barrels and heavy-for-caliber bullets with high ballistic coefficients and sectional densities. The fast rifling twist, which was used to stabilize the very long 156-160 grain round-nosed bullets that were in common usage ages ago, will also stabilize heavy-for-diameter spitzers & VLD's which are popular now for extended-range operations. This is the root of the popularity of the 6.5mm bore diameter today.

Darn near nobody in the US used 6.5mm cartridges for decades, because they wanted a spitzer bullet at reasonable velocity - not a long, round-nosed heavy at 2200 fps. Well, now the 6.5's are all the rage - but with heavy spitzer bullets. The fast-twist concept is finally being employed with other bore diameters, but the 6.5mm's started out rifled that way - so they had a head start on the American sporting cartridges that were based on the more popular bullet diameters. The 7mm cartridges often have a slightly faster twist rate than your standard 30-06 or 270, so it does a bit better with heavy-for-caliber bullets - hence the huge popularity of the 7mm magnum cartridges over the decades. It has long been a jump ahead of our traditional calibers in that regard, but not quite so much as the 6.5mm cartridges. Soon we will be seeing fast-twist barrels on factory rifles in ALL the commonly used bullet diameters, as well as long & heavy bullets for same.

I don't know if we are going to see everybody sending his old 270 back to Remington & Winchester to be re-barreled with the latest fast-twist barrel, but we are seeing guys send them off to custom rifle builder for this. Some of these older rifles were ready for a new tube anyway; some were not - and the new bullets that require the faster rifling twist have sparked the interest. It's all good for business, and I'm happy to see it happening. Look at how much fun everybody is having with it already.

 

[John Polk]

Please don't forget that most expanding (mushrooming) bullets need 1,800 fps to work. This has nothing to do with b.c.'s., but is a function of velocity. To take advantage of high b.c. bullets, the initial launch velocity must be high enough to sustain the velociy above 1800 fps at long range.

 

[Nomosendero]

But what does that have to do with the topic? "Why the 6.5 Caliber"

It is off topic and also I would not make such a claim about any round & I have shot several with a 45/70, oh and 6.5's and 30's yaada yaada!

 

[Bill28]

I was replying to this post.
"gvjm said: ↑
I'm still waiting to be wowed. I spent a lot of money building an AR-10 in 6.5 CM. And with 2 harvests under my belt I'm not seeing anything special. But I want to, I really want to! But I've hunted with a lot of calibers looking for that perfect deer round and so far have only been impressed with the 25-06. Others have suffered from overkill and under kill. I think my biggest issue is that I hunt in Texas and shots are almost always under 200 yards. I'm starting to believe that at 200 there a better calibers. But I'm not giving up. I need a few more kills to say definitively."

Really like my 243win for deer and antelope

 

[RT2506]

I have read every one of the post on the question "Why the 6.5 caliber"?
Know one has given the correct answer but here it is.

Everybody knows that all you have to do with any .264 bullet is just toss it up in the air and it naturally flies flat and hits the intended target. LOL

My Ford will out run your Chevy also.