Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Calvin45]

A

A longer barrel will allow you to run a slower powder to extend the burn time in the longer barrel producing more velocity. A shorter barrel can't take advantage of the longer burn time making it unable to burn all of the powder. Less engraving pressure needs less barrel length and faster powder to get to max pressure. Results are faster velocity with less pressure and shorter barrels. Like larger bore cartridges use faster powder than smaller bore for the same bullet weight. It gets tough to find a powder slow enough to use in a 30" barrel 375 rum. You can usually get the same or better results with a 24" barrel.

I wish you well too.

Oh shoot now I'm arguing with you too!


Not really tho. But it's been demonstrated in multiple tests that the powder that yields the highest velocity in a long barrel yields the highest in shorter ones too…albeit with a lot of muzzle blast and flash.

 

[adam32+P]

So how should we be doing it ?

The safest way, with a PressureTrace.

How I do it, if I still have tight primer pockets and my velocity isn't much higher than "everyone else" I deem it "safe". And then I run the numbers with Quickload to make sure everything matches up closely. But I know the Absolute Hammers don't jive with QL so that's not an option with them. So for Absolutes if I got another 100fps out of them in my 243AI I would be happy and not push it further, 400fps more would scare the helllllllllo out of me.

I used to run the 105 Berger at 3400 out of a 243AI without the typical pressure signs, but would only get 4 firings per case at most, Lapua brass too. So backed it down to 3250 and now have great case life.

Again, I'm just pointing out Steve's 280 Ack and other "improved" cartridges. Standard cartridges are good to go with standing reloading practices, bullet doesn't really matter imo.

I have three RUMs being finished at the moment that'll be getting some Absolutes at warp speed. I personally don't try to chase speed with small cartridges, if one doesn't push the bullet I want fast enough I simply get a bigger case to hold the bullet.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Steve, what was the velocity of the 140 BT with the same charge of 65 gn of H100V?

No. The quoted velocity for the BT was per Hodgdon data. I did not shoot the BT.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The safest way, with a PressureTrace.

How I do it, if I still have tight primer pockets and my velocity isn't much higher than "everyone else" I deem it "safe". And then I run the numbers with Quickload to make sure everything matches up closely. But I know the Absolute Hammers don't jive with QL so that's not an option with them. So for Absolutes if I got another 100fps out of them in my 243AI I would be happy and not push it further, 400fps more would scare the helllllllllo out of me.

I used to run the 105 Berger at 3400 out of a 243AI without the typical pressure signs, but would only get 4 firings per case at most, Lapua brass too. So backed it down to 3250 and now have great case life.

Again, I'm just pointing out Steve's 280 Ack and other "improved" cartridges. Standard cartridges are good to go with standing reloading practices, bullet doesn't really matter imo.

I have three RUMs being finished at the moment that'll be getting some Absolutes at warp speed. I personally don't try to chase speed with small cartridges, if one doesn't push the bullet I want fast enough I simply get a bigger case to hold the bullet.

I don't think you will get much more velocity out of the Absolute in the rum than you would with the Hammer Hunter. A bit more but not enough to make them worth the effort. The bigger cases don't show as much gain. Once we get to about 85g of powder the velocity gain diminishes.

 

[ButterBean]

The safest way, with a PressureTrace.

How I do it, if I still have tight primer pockets and my velocity isn't much higher than "everyone else" I deem it "safe". And then I run the numbers with Quickload to make sure everything matches up closely. But I know the Absolute Hammers don't jive with QL so that's not an option with them. So for Absolutes if I got another 100fps out of them in my 243AI I would be happy and not push it further, 400fps more would scare the helllllllllo out of me.

I used to run the 105 Berger at 3400 out of a 243AI without the typical pressure signs, but would only get 4 firings per case at most, Lapua brass too. So backed it down to 3250 and now have great case life.

Again, I'm just pointing out Steve's 280 Ack and other "improved" cartridges. Standard cartridges are good to go with standing reloading practices, bullet doesn't really matter imo.

I have three RUMs being finished at the moment that'll be getting some Absolutes at warp speed. I personally don't try to chase speed with small cartridges, if one doesn't push the bullet I want fast enough I simply get a bigger case to hold the bullet.

Huh, I'll just keep on doing it like I have for the last 40 years but thanks anyway

 

[2buffalo]

No but the big boys especially the powder companies pressure test their stuff. And they all say " do not exceed maximum loads". What they mean is do not exceed maximum velocity. Depending on your rifle it may take a little less or a little more powder to get to the max velocity. But pressure and velocity run hand in hand with normal bullets. A responsible reloader knows that if after sourcing multiple data sources that if 3000 fps is max with the bullet powder combo then he works up to that. The bullet and powder companies dont say well we loaded to 400 fps over max and the bolt didnt lock up so we must be good.

So I am currently running 83.8g of H1000 in my 28 Nosler getting an average of 3487 fps.

Nosler data shows I should be running 3444 fps with 86g I am showing zero pressure signs but because I am exceeding their velocity of 3444 fps you assume I am over pressure? I brought it all the way to 85 g and had know pressure signs and was running 3528 but I backed it down for accuracy.

Again if you don't like or don't believe the facts that are being put out in front of you and you have no experience what are you adding to the conversation other than meaningless babble?

 

[ButterBean]

I don't think you will get much more velocity out of the Absolute in the rum than you would with the Hammer Hunter. A bit more but not enough to make them worth the effort. The bigger cases don't show as much gain. Once we get to about 85g of powder the velocity gain diminishes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ShoNuff^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[ButterBean]

So I am currently running 83.8g of H1000 in my 28 Nosler getting an average of 3487 fps.

Nosler data shows I should be running 3444 fps with 86g I am showing zero pressure signs but because I am exceeding their velocity of 3444 fps you assume I am over pressure? I brought it all the way to 85 g and had know pressure signs and was running 3528 but I backed it down for accuracy.

Again if you don't like or don't believe the facts that are being put out in front of you and you have no experience what are you adding to the conversation other than meaningless babble?

View attachment 423862

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[RockyMtnMT]

Oh shoot now I'm arguing with you too!


Not really tho. But it's been demonstrated in multiple tests that the powder that yields the highest velocity in a long barrel yields the highest in shorter ones too…albeit with a lot of muzzle blast and flash.

Interesting. I have definitely run out of barrel to burn too slow of powder and been able to get better velocity from faster powder. We often see multiple powders pressure out at roughly the same velocity. I usually try to find the highest velocity with the slowest powder. I start with slow powder and work towards faster powder to find the load. I know I can't match velocity in a shorter barrel with same powder as with a longer barrel. If I remember correctly we got our best velocity in 27" barrel 280ai with rl26 but I got best velocity in 22" 280ai with rl16 and rl23.

One of those things that would be interesting to test when I have all kinds of time!

 

[ButterBean]

Oh shoot now I'm arguing with you too!


Not really tho. But it's been demonstrated in multiple tests that the powder that yields the highest velocity in a long barrel yields the highest in shorter ones too…albeit with a lot of muzzle blast and flash.

With Hammer Bullets?

 

[smokey3]

Can we get 20 pages?

 

[Calvin45]

With Hammer Bullets?

No. There's a difference there too?

 

[ButterBean]

No. There's a difference there too?

Yes Sir there sure is

 

[Calvin45]

Interesting. I have definitely run out of barrel to burn too slow of powder and been able to get better velocity from faster powder. We often see multiple powders pressure out at roughly the same velocity. I usually try to find the highest velocity with the slowest powder. I start with slow powder and work towards faster powder to find the load. I know I can't match velocity in a shorter barrel with same powder as with a longer barrel. If I remember correctly we got our best velocity in 27" barrel 280ai with rl26 but I got best velocity in 22" 280ai with rl16 and rl23.

One of those things that would be interesting to test when I have all kinds of time!

Indeed, but it sounds like you have a lot more first hand experience with that than myself so I'll take your word for it.

My experience in addition to articles I've read where they cut down barrels and keep chronoing loads is that, for example, I've heard so many people tell me that 7828 and rl25 would be too slow to be useful in my .270 win, not just because it's not overbore enough but the 22 inch pipe. "Maybe with a 26 or 28" I've heard but then had no trouble hitting 3000 with 150 soft points in my setup.

All this to say if a given powder would yield higher fps in a long barrel my limited experince is that it will in a shorter one too.