Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Buckys]

It has been a long time since I loaded anything other than a Hammer. Some experiments with other bullets but nothing to compare loads sxs with Hammers. Our loading and testing process has been very much the same as what Kirby outlined. We try not to go to the point of failing the brass. We do pay attention to case head expansion and primer pocket longevity.

So you know. SAAMI pressure specs are not set by any kind of testing by a governing body to see where the failure of any components or rifles is with a specific cartridge. My understanding is that the designer of a cartridge will pick a number and call it the SAAMI spec. Nothing more than that is required. Maybe @elkaholic, Rich Sherman can give some light to this subject. By the way his cartridges are extremely efficient. They tend to hide pressure and do the same thing no matter what you stuff in them!

Steve, thanks for replying. Being a novice reloader, my motivation is to learn. I'm also careful that given my rifles are factory actions, there resiliency to peak pressure may very well be signifcantly less than others whose experiences are with custom rifle builds with much more robust actions.

When I first opened this thread 20 pages back ... I was hoping to learn why "Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster", specifically the Hammer Hunters (and maybe the title of this thread should have been "Why Absolute Hammers Are Always Faster", I really don't know).

e.g., at a given peak chamber pressure for similar bullet weights ... why should I expect a Hammer Hunter to be faster in a given rifle?

I'm assuming that once one narrows those variables enough, observed velocity ought to be a first-order variable that one can use to estimate pressure. And I'd be ok to learn if my assumption is wrong, too.

 

[Calvin45]

Steve, thanks for replying. Being a novice reloader, my motivation is to learn. I'm also careful that given my rifles are factory actions, there resiliency to peak pressure may very well be signifcantly less than others whose experiences are with custom rifle builds with much more robust actions.

When I first opened this thread 20 pages back ... I was hoping to learn why "Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster", specifically the Hammer Hunters (and maybe the title of this thread should have been "Why Absolute Hammers Are Always Faster", I really don't know).

e.g., at a given peak chamber pressure for similar bullet weights ... why should I expect a Hammer Hunter to be faster in a given rifle?

I'm assuming that once one narrows those variables enough, observed velocity ought to be a first-order variable that one can use to estimate pressure. And I'd be ok to learn if my assumption is wrong, too.

Good thoughts.

I must say…even modern factory rifles (not custom) are often capable of taking stupid pressure, very very well made from a safety point.

I have no idea which is the strongest but I've always been perfectly safe even when it turned out my loads reached dangerous territory (these guns can survive rookie 18 year old handloaders learning the hard ways about some things)

Weatherby is probably my favourite non custom rifle maker. I've only ever had vanguards, one day I want a mark 5 if money allows. Hammer is shaping up to be my new favourite independent bullet company alongside woodleigh bullets of Australia - they should be starting to produce their fine products this new year again after a tragic fire leveled their old factory. Ive been in email correspondence with them just to try and encourage them in a crappy time and let them know I'm itching to buy their stuff once it's available, especially the 310 round nose for my .358 Norma. Always appreciate hornady for being accessible to the common man haha. I felt all warm and fuzzy when weatherby started loading hammers. Just makes sense.

But I've most certainly been overpressure with my weatherbys, savages, husqvarna m98s, and others. It's not like a custom bolt gun wouldn't still sieze up if your were in the danger zone either.

 

[dogz]

"My opinion looking at velocity for pressure signs would be the last thing I would look at based on differences in barrel/bullet combination...

Hmm interesting perspective. Pressure equals speed and speed equals pressure

So just gotta ask and sorry if you mentioned this elsewhere (I've been off wolf, cat and elk hunting) but what you do go by for some sort of means of checking for pressure?

 

[MtPockets]

No but the big boys especially the powder companies pressure test their stuff. And they all say " do not exceed maximum loads". What they mean is do not exceed maximum velocity.

If they meant "Do not exceed maximum velocity" wouldn't you think they would say that?
Assuming that reloaders would know that would seem to open them up to lawsuits, IMO.

We all know that there are fast barrels and there are slow barrels, and that those velocities are dependant on pressures.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Nope. You can go back and catch up on posts as some folks said same thing but I have not. I just think it easier to lump folks into some non-believer category and start ****ing match than actually comprehend what is there or do your own research if do not really understand it

Any case I hope all well and folks do what makes them feel safe. I am happy loading hammers how I feel safe

Lou

Same here. I load Hammers the same way I loaded the other bullets in the past. Since the weakest link in the shooting system is the brass, I load till the bolt is a little sticky and back off a couple grains. I really couldn't care less what arbitrary number in pressure is assigned to it.

 

[Rich Coyle]

What I'm trying to add is a voice of reason from my personal experience.

Most posters here think they are adding a voice of reason from a personal experience. It's like the Bible says, "Everyones ways are right in their own eyes."

 

[2buffalo]

"My opinion looking at velocity for pressure signs would be the last thing I would look at based on differences in barrel/bullet combination...

Hmm interesting perspective. Pressure equals speed and speed equals pressure

So just gotta ask and sorry if you mentioned this elsewhere (I've been off wolf, cat and elk hunting) but what you do go by for some sort of means of checking for pressure?

It is always the last thing I look at. I do an OCW test to start checking for ejector marks and primer flattening, then seating depth, then check velocity. Not saying it's right but that's how I do it and have never had a problem. People reloaded for years without chronographs or accurate chronographs. If you were reloading in those days how did you do it not knowing velocities?

 

[2buffalo]

"My opinion looking at velocity for pressure signs would be the last thing I would look at based on differences in barrel/bullet combination...

Hmm interesting perspective. Pressure equals speed and speed equals pressure

So just gotta ask and sorry if you mentioned this elsewhere (I've been off wolf, cat and elk hunting) but what you do go by for some sort of means of checking for pressure?

Thought about this a little more....

In your history of loading your own ammo have you ever loaded without a chronograph? If so how did you know you were at or near pressure?

I am sure there are many people out there that still do not own a chronograph. Do you suggest they stop loading until they have one? I know many people who don't own one that have been loading for 40 years that have never owned one.

 

[Window]

It is always the last thing I look at. I do an OCW test to start checking for ejector marks and primer flattening, then seating depth, then check velocity. Not saying it's right but that's how I do it and have never had a problem. People reloaded for years without chronographs or accurate chronographs. If you were reloading in those days how did you do it not knowing velocities?

Looks like I'll start another page to this seemingly never ending post and do my very best to do it respectfully. The majority of us on this forum, probably 99%+% of has don't have the means or desire to acquire pressure testing instruments. However, most of us through our experiences know when excessive pressure is present based on numerous factors. For example, I have actions that are on their third or fourth barrel and still holding strong and hope that in my lifetime they get another three of four before the good man calls me home. I've also never known exactly what the exact pressure was other what I deemed safe due to what the rifle and components told me. I'll also note that in my personal rifles that I'm shooting Hammers though, I'm on eight to eleven firing's with brass. Primer pockets are still tight and no signs of case head separation (using a bore scope) are seen. Velocity is slightly greater than Barnes and significantly better than Sierras or Bergers. That doesn't really mean anything to me other than it's factual. I still load and shoot a ton of Sierras and Bergers for extended ranges. I've also chosen to hunt primarily with Hammers because over 90% of the animals I've shot and will shoot are in their effective killing range. Not to mention the fact the ease of load development.

 

[ButterBean]

Thought about this a little more....

In your history of loading your own ammo have you ever loaded without a chronograph? If so how did you know you were at or near pressure?

I am sure there are many people out there that still do not own a chronograph. Do you suggest they stop loading until they have one? I know many people who don't own one that have been loading for 40 years that have never owned one.

I'm not sure what you are getting at

 

[2buffalo]

I'm not sure what you are getting at

I am saying this conversation about a chronograph being the holy grail of pressure indicators is ridiculous.

 

[Calvin45]

I am saying this conversation about a chronograph being the holy grail of pressure indicators is ridiculous.

Indeed. You could easily use a fast burning powder to hit high pressure without "offending the chronograph"

 

[jessej]

I really couldn't care less what arbitrary number in pressure is assigned to it.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Lou270]

Saami is no different than other standards committees. They publish the guidelines and protocols for the testing, but do not do the testing. Most "big" places have their own lab / equipment where they test using these practices

What you are posting are some independent labs that do saami testing where one could send their stuff to be tested if they don't have their own equipment to do so

Lou