Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Lou270]

Was in reference to this post…

Not sure what you actually "know" versus "believe" what the "big boys do…"
But here's a little info from SAAMI.
View attachment 423951
So in short, 3 companies SAAMI relies on for info, but does not certify.
Gotta love Govt. Work.

 

[jessej]

@Lou270
I believe you are a highly experienced hand loader. And I from what I read here I believe you are very knowledgeable on the subject. But I think you have fallen victim to the age old predicament of being to emotionally invested in your idea. And That doesn't make you a bad guy. I fall victim to it all the time. All to often, so desperately I want MY idea to work that I will spend asinine amounts of time and energy trying to force it when there was a far better more effective method for the desired out come.
Not bashing you at all so please don't take it that way.
In my simple mind, it goes like this……
Take 2 projectiles. one with a measurable amount of decreased resistance in the bore. And we put the same amount of "PRESSURE " behind each, the one with less resistance will proceed at a higher velocity. I really don't see how this isn't true EVERY time. But i am open minded enough to ponder another point of view.

The state highway speed limit here is 55 mph. Some people don't exceed it. And that's ok. Personally, I bend the rules everyday. Sometimes bend them to the point of major repercussions.

 

[Calvin45]

Saami is no different than other standards committees. They publish the guidelines and protocols for the testing, but do not do the testing. Most "big" places have their own lab / equipment where they test using these practices

What you are posting are some independent labs that do saami testing where one could send their stuff to be tested if they don't have their own equipment to do so

Lou

Be interesting to get one's reloads tested sometime. But maybe I don't wanna know

 

[Muddyboots]

Be interesting to get one's reloads tested sometime. But maybe I don't wanna know

Problem is any reload not tested in your rifle, results irrelevant. And here we go again! Test ammo AND barrels are at SAAMI.

Guns and Ammo had really nice article on ammo pressure testing. The problem for reloaders is we rarely load at SAAMI cartridge OAL specs which is why we reload to maximize accuracy by adjusting COAL, CBTO, freebore on our barrels, etc.

Ammunition Pressure Testing - Guns and Ammo

Demystifying the methods and terminology of ammunition pressure testing.

www.gunsandammo.com

What we need is an instrument that can be tied to our own rifles to verify pressure developed in our specific rifle. Oh yeah, cheap!

 

[cajun]

Not sure what you actually "know" versus "believe" what the "big boys do…"
But here's a little info from SAAMI.
View attachment 423951
So in short, 3 companies SAAMI relies on for info, but does not certify.
Gotta love Govt. Work.

The major powder companies pressure test their data. Hogdon and western powder post the actual numbers. A lot but not all of the bullet makers data is. Sierra has a pressure test lab.

 

[ButterBean]

I am saying this conversation about a chronograph being the holy grail of pressure indicators is ridiculous.

Ok gotcha and I concur, a chronograph will tell you nothing about pressure last time I checked

 

[Northkill]

The major powder companies pressure test their data. Hogdon and western powder post the actual numbers. A lot but not all of the bullet makers data is. Sierra has a pressure test lab.

And to be consistent in this demand for Hammer to include pressure testing along with their recommendations, we'd have to apply the same "rules" to all other bullet makers who dole out recommended load info, which they pretty much all do... My personal experience has been that they all give recommendations in good faith, Hammer included. They don't want to be responsible for damages/injuries resulting from exaggerated info. I know this is about the higher-velocity claims, but on the flip side there are some monos that pressure up faster than some C&C's that could get you in trouble if you simply go by "pressure-tested" load data velocity as a pressure indicator. There's no substitute for responsible and common-sense reloading and for understanding pressure indicators. It's a little like using a mechanic that only goes by the books vs one who knows the books but also applies his experience and commonsense. Nothing more frustrating than dealing with a "by-the-books-only" tech support or mechanic. I have two PRC's with different actions and barrels running the same 124HH @ same OAL that show the same pressure signs 200 fps apart with different charge weights. So many different factors go into pressure that it's nigh impossible to standardize something that hinges on so many variables.

 

[Lou270]

You folks keep either intentionally or unitentionally swapping how your guns compare to barrel used in saami testing vs actually properly testing a bullet in a test barrel

The differences between bullets will show up and be quantiable with pressure testing. For ex testing may show you get 100 fps more. You can expect around that in your
Gun. There of course could be some minor variations as with any measurements but if you get 300 fps more (in my example, not referencing what anybody else posted). you are at higher pressure. We are dealing with a change in bearing surface here not some new alien bullet metal or exotic powder. The original barnes bullets had much higher engraving pressure than standard cup & core but did not get 3-400 fps less or really much less at all but may have needed a different powder to get back close

Some folks get this some folks dont. Some folks said they dont care

Lou

 

[Rich Coyle]

Some folks get this some folks dont. Some folks said they dont care

Lou

What does caring accomplish?

 

[Lou270]

What does caring accomplish?

They said they don't care what the pressure is but feel good with what they are doing. Several folks said this.

Lou

 

[Northkill]

You folks keep either intentionally or unitentionally swapping how your guns compare to barrel used in saami testing vs actually properly testing a bullet in a test barrel

The differences between bullets will show up and be quantiable with pressure testing. For ex testing may show you get 100 fps more. You can expect around that in your
Gun. There of course could be some minor variations as with any measurements but if you get 300 fps more (in my example, not referencing what anybody else posted). you are at higher pressure. We are dealing with a change in bearing surface here not some new alien bullet metal or exotic powder. The original barnes bullets had much higher engraving pressure than standard cup & core but did not get 3-400 fps less or really much less at all but may have needed a different powder to get back close

Some folks get this some folks dont. Some folks said they dont care

Lou

I get your point and it would be interesting to see something like that for interests' sake... The actual value might be a bit subjective as it's hard to cover all the variables.

 

[Rich Coyle]

They said they don't care what the pressure is but feel good with what they are doing. Several folks said this.

Lou

You didn't answer the question. What does caring accomplish?

 

[Lou270]

You didn't answer the question. What does caring accomplish?

Sorry, but if you need that question answered probably need to do some reading

Lou

 

[Muddyboots]

Ok, what's the over under on total pages? 47!