Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Calvin45]

Yes Sir there sure is

Oh for crying out loud

 

[MW204]

I need to make it very clear that only the Absolute Hammers are capable of much higher velocities. The rest of the Hammer line is fairly conventional with about 50-100 fps more than conventional bullets of similar weight. They will line up pretty well with conventional load data. Absolutes do not line up with conventional data. This is because they have exceptionally low engraving pressure.

I'm getting 3350 fps out of my 300 WM with the 178gr AH with a 26" Douglas barrel.
My slight pressure loads were 76 grs of H4350, first target on the left 100 yds, I had a slight stiff bolt lift at the top so after this group I reduced my load to 75 grs, second target on the right 400 yds, 2-shot group.
I also use Peterson 300 wm long brass.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I think I missed it. Design impacts velocity, not just weight. Other things affect velocity but related to bullet the things I can think of that impacts velocity is engraving pressure and projectile length (ie reducing powder space).

Engraving pressure is dictated by distance to lands, bearing surface, bullet construction, materials, type and dimensions of rifling, and probably something not thinking of.

Engraving or shot start pressure basically influences how fast reach top pressure for a given load. If lower EP from one bullet to next you can add some powder back to reach same max pressure and could gain some extra area under the p/t curve for more velocity depending on burn rate of powder as rise slope will be little less steep

Lou

I do believe you are changing your tune. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is those loads are over pressure. Not enough to lock up the rifle but likely over pressure. You read the link to the John Barness article where an ammo company tested an accepted wildcat load and found it was 70-75 k. That is what you guys are doing. As a bullet maker you have a responsibility to provide data that adheres to saami specs and will be safe in any rifle. Thats what the big boys do. Instead you share data that is basically wildcat data and say load at your own risk.

Don't they all say something similar?

 

[Rich Coyle]

Indeed, but it sounds like you have a lot more first hand experience with that than myself so I'll take your word for it.

My experience in addition to articles I've read where they cut down barrels and keep chronoing loads is that, for example, I've heard so many people tell me that 7828 and rl25 would be too slow to be useful in my .270 win, not just because it's not overbore enough but the 22 inch pipe. "Maybe with a 26 or 28" I've heard but then had no trouble hitting 3000 with 150 soft points in my setup.

All this to say if a given powder would yield higher fps in a long barrel my limited experince is that it will in a shorter one too.

Have you tried it with Hammer bullets?

 

[Lou270]

I do believe you are changing your tune. Maybe it's just me.

Nope. You can go back and catch up on posts as some folks said same thing but I have not. I just think it easier to lump folks into some non-believer category and start ****ing match than actually comprehend what is there or do your own research if do not really understand it

Any case I hope all well and folks do what makes them feel safe. I am happy loading hammers how I feel safe

Lou

 

[Mike Matteson]

Interesting: I have always looked for pressure signs in load up ammo. Unless you the equipment to do that it's a guessing game. I start out the low powder figure and work up from there. I stop at flatten primes, and watch for ejector marks. When all copper bullets came out. I tried them. Found hard to push down the tub, and didn't group very good. I haven't use them yet. Going to all copper bullets, with Hammer bullets.

 

[jessej]

400fps more would scare the helllllllllo out of me.

400 fps more makes my sticker peck out

 

[jessej]

I have three RUMs being finished at the moment that'll be getting some Absolutes at warp speed.

 

[Calvin45]

Have you tried it with Hammer bullets?

Mr bean already asked me that haha.

 

[cajun]

So I am currently running 83.8g of H1000 in my 28 Nosler getting an average of 3487 fps.

Nosler data shows I should be running 3444 fps with 86g I am showing zero pressure signs but because I am exceeding their velocity of 3444 fps you assume I am over pressure? I brought it all the way to 85 g and had know pressure signs and was running 3528 but I backed it down for accuracy.

Again if you don't like or don't believe the facts that are being put out in front of you and you have no experience what are you adding to the conversation other than meaningless babble?

View attachment 4238626

What I'm trying to add is a voice of reason from my personal experience. There are a lot of folks without much experience in reloading. From your example above I look at max velocity because it equals pressure. How many grains it takes to get there is not the issue. I also source multiple sources of data. Hogdon lists a load 200 fps slower with their etip. Back in the day before chronographs were so available it was a different story. Unless you had a place to shoot at distance and could calculate drops you were either not exceeding max book powder charge or loading until pressure issues started showing up. Which is what we did. After cheap chronographs became available we started comparing our data to the published data and in some cases we were way over. Speaking with a friend who is a ballistician and has access to a pressure lab he told where he thought those loads were and it was an eye popper. Now we had shot these loads for several years without major issues except for locking up a few actions including one model 7 that we broke off the lugs trying to get it open. So with my face about a foot from the action when shooting I got a little perspective. I also know the old reloading manuals were hotter than today. Many folks attribute this to lawyers but according to my buddy it was basically not many people had pressure testing equipment back then and the newer data is a little slower because they actually tested them. Look you guys can do your own thing. You certainly dont need my approval.

 

[HammerBullets]

As a bullet maker you have a responsibility to provide data that adheres to saami specs and will be safe in any rifle. Thats what the big boys do. Instead you share data that is basically wildcat data and say load at your own risk.

Not sure what you actually "know" versus "believe" what the "big boys do…"
But here's a little info from SAAMI.

So in short, 3 companies SAAMI relies on for info, but does not certify.
Gotta love Govt. Work.

 

[ButterBean]

Not sure what you actually "know" versus "believe" what the "big boys do…"
But here's a little info from SAAMI.
View attachment 423951
So in short, 3 companies SAAMI relies on for info, but does not certify.
Gotta love Govt. Work.

What ????? The Big Boys aren't providing this information to the public, Say It Ain't So

 

[2buffalo]

So we agree if you are locking up actions you are over pressure for that setup? I agree nobody without testing equipment exactly what pressure they are running and I believe that is what Lou was saying. Since very few people have a setup like that you have to read pressure signs. Every rifle and bullet are different. You seem to be saying the only true pressure sign is the velocity in which the bullet leaves the barrel. How does this work when the barrel length is different than what was tested? You are back to not knowing the exact velocity. You can say 25-50 fps per inch of barrel length in either direction but you will be guessing again looking for other signs of pressure. My opinion looking at velocity for pressure signs would be the last thing I would look at based on differences in barrel/bullet combinations. What do you do when you start seeing flat primers or ejector marks, etc. Before you get to the listed MV? Keep going because the book says you should get XXXX MV or do you read the pressure signs and stop there?