Whitetail POI...... What’s your intended Target?

[Lenny Foffa]

The 5 deer I have shot with my 130 Grn Ballistic tips either fell down instant dead, or maybe went 7 to 10 yards. They died in plain sight , no tracking. Three were heart shots, with copper fragments in the lungs . One was a double lung shot and the Lungs were completely liquid. The outfitter was shocked. He thought I hit him with a Big mag, However , I showed him it was just my .270 Win, with a lightly constructed bullet, with a 3020 FPS Muzz. vel. that never makes an exit hole. I have not hit a shoulder yet, and I am trying not too.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

The 5 deer I have shot with my 130 Grn Ballistic tips either fell down instant dead, or maybe went 7 to 10 yards. They died in plain sight , no tracking. Three were heart shots, with copper fragments in the lungs . One was a double lung shot and the Lungs were completely liquid. The outfitter was shocked. He thought I hit him with a Big mag, However , I showed him it was just my .270 Win, with a lightly constructed bullet, with a 3020 FPS Muzz. vel. that never makes an exit hole. I have not hit a shoulder yet, and I am trying not too.

A 270 or it's like is about as good as it gets for whitetail deer killing. I think the 6.5cm is an excellent whitetail cartridge. The cartridges in that range are lethal, accurate, allow for long range hunting opportunities, are inexpensive to shoot, and the recoil is very manageable. I killed 75% of the deer that I've eaten with a .270 Winchester. Jack O'Conner who made the .270 famous, used it to kill dangerous African game, which seems ridiculous to me, but man does it do a number on ungulates. I am waiting on my 270wby to leave the Smith now. He's going to spin on my new 1-8.5 twist barrel so I can sling those long 170gr bullets at high velocities. I can't wait..

 

[StumpGrinder]

I'm a behind the shoulder guy myself. 40+ years and well over a 100 deer never lost one that I've hit there. I stay away from the shoulder ( I'm a meat hunter..lol ) big margin for error with a 1/2 way up the body , behind that shoulder shot. If I have a quartering to or from , I aim to have the bullet come out behind / in front of the opposite shoulder. Ya some times they run a bit, but their dead. I found a buck one year after the season, barely able to lift his head, his whole bottom jaw hanging. Don't know if it was a head shot or a high neck shot gone wrong, but that poor guy suffered. Even a gut shot , would have killed him quicker.

With a hit like that I'm sure the deer went straight down and the hunter probably thought the deer was dead right there. I have heard and seen this myself with a jerked shot. After the shot, even if the animal goes straight down, CHAMBER ANOTHER ROUND!!! Continue holding the cross hair on the vitals and watch for signs of life and be ready for a follow up shot. A shot to the head probably knocked the animal out, then when the hunter walked up on it the animal came to and ran off. Giving no chance for a follow up. I took a high shoulder shot once and watched the animal continue breathing for 15 minutes. I then finished it with a head shot. ALWAYS be prepared for a follow up shot! When walking up on an animal never assume it is dead!. I read an article of a guy that hit a deer with his car. He then put the "dead deer" in the back seat so he could take it home and process it. 15 minutes later the deer woke up and trashed his car!

 

[Calvin45]

With a hit like that I'm sure the deer went straight down and the hunter probably thought the deer was dead right there. I have heard and seen this myself with a jerked shot. After the shot, even if the animal goes straight down, CHAMBER ANOTHER ROUND!!! Continue holding the cross hair on the vitals and watch for signs of life and be ready for a follow up shot. A shot to the head probably knocked the animal out, then when the hunter walked up on it the animal came to and ran off. Giving no chance for a follow up. I took a high shoulder shot once and watched the animal continue breathing for 15 minutes. I then finished it with a head shot. ALWAYS be prepared for a follow up shot! When walking up on an animal never assume it is dead!. I read an article of a guy that hit a deer with his car. He then put the "dead deer" in the back seat so he could take it home and process it. 15 minutes later the deer woke up and trashed his car!

That's good advice about not walking up assuming it's dead...I heard of a guy (fully aware that many stories that start like this may or may not be fully factual...just what someone told me) who got kicked in the groin by an elk under the same circumstances. Might sound funny at first but in all seriousness that would/could be one truly unbearable injury.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

So this story is probably cringeworthy but it's true, so I'll tell it. One winter I was splitting firewood in the front yard and I heard my little brother hollering from a field next to the house. I looked up and he had a whitetail doe by the back legs in what can only be described as "wheel-barrowing" it towards the house. He was about 10 and had taken his Marlin 30-30 hunting, and shot this doe in the spine in the middle of her back. She wasn't dead but couldn't move the back half of her body. He decided that being roughly a mile away from the house that keeping her head pointed at the house and holding her hind legs off the ground would allow her to aid in her own recovery. He drove her, (I said what I said), into the yard and finished her. I laughed about that for..... well, I'm still laughing about it.

 

[StumpGrinder]

Over the years I've seen a whole pile of deer shot in the head illegally (here in TN) with a 22lr, and I've never seen one drop. Coyotes ate them all eventually. I had a "buddy" that told me how he always killed them that way, and I watched him wound 3 does in one weekend. He hit all 3, I saw it happen, and all 3 ran off without any blood trail to follow, and they were never recovered. I worked for a farmer that used to have a depredation permit to kill deer in his fields year round, and I've seen him shoot a dozen or more over a couple of years with a 22lr. He would try to make head shots, but he shot some of them in the lungs, and I never saw one of those deer die. Every single one disappeared into the woods. And finally, my own story: when I was an eager 14 year old alone in the woods squirrel hunting with my 22lr, I had a doe walk right to me, like 20y, and I opened up on her with my 22lr. I probably hit her in the lung area 5 times or more at point blank range. I pursued the tiny drops of blood for miles until I couldn't find anymore blood, and never found her. So, I'm far from calling you a liar, however, I think shooting an animal bigger than a raccoon with a 22lr, unless it is in a trap or you are at point blank range harvesting a domestic animal is a really bad idea. I've seen coyotes run off after taking a solid .223 or a .204 round to the chest, and if they get to 40lbs they are a monster. I think, (this is my opinion, based on the massive number of deer I've shot and seen killed), that you need a relatively fast 6mm cartridge or bigger to responsibly kill whitetail. Sure, you can kill them with a 22lr, sure, you can kill them with a .223, but I don't care what anyone says because I've seen it too many times, you will lose some. When they allowed the .223 to be used for whitetail here in TN and everybody with an ar15 was out there winging them, the coyotes ate good. I hunt with enough gun so that I have the ability to reach the vitals on any reasonable angle. I want to know that my bullet isn't going to spall on the shoulder and do no real damage, and while bullet selection is key, nothing beats energy. I want to be able to go straight through the shoulder socket and kill, in case that is the only shot I have.

I pick my shots very carefully and I don't shot at every deer I see. I'm a meat hunter, I shoot yearlings and does. I ALWAYS wait for a standing broadside shot for double lung if past 50 yards with 22 or 100 yards for 5.56 and above. Inside 50 yards 22 behind the ear with head up or center of fore head if the head is down facing me. I can count on one hand the number of deer I have lost over the past 40 years. One of them was 20 years ago with a .308 at 20 yards. It was walking and I stopped the gun when I pulled the trigger resulting in a liver shot. The deer rolled completely over feet in the air then jumped up and ran off. I trailed that deer 500 yards before loosing the dark red blood sign. I should have waited till morning to trail the deer but in my exuberance over my first NC deer I kept bumping it and never got a follow up shot. Lesson learned!!! I still make mistakes at 59 but I try not to make the same one twice. There are 2 was to kill, hemorrhage and shock. A bow and a 22 through the lunges kills by hemorrhage. High shoulder shots and hollow points from high poward rifles kill by shock and hemorrhage.

 

[Hound-1]

That's good advice about not walking up assuming it's dead...I heard of a guy (fully aware that many stories that start like this may or may not be fully factual...just what someone told me) who got kicked in the groin by an elk under the same circumstances. Might sound funny at first but in all seriousness that would/could be one truly unbearable injury.

When I was about 13, I begged my dad to let me go hunting with my friend and his dad. Our doe season was only 2 days back then, Monday/ Tuesday. My pop had to work, so after a long speech about, making sure their dead, touch the eye with the muzzle, be ready if it's not ect. I was able to go. My friends dad dropped us off at each bench on the mountain and we were told " don't move, ill be around every hour or so to check on you ,and I'll hear ya shoot. " Not long after daylight, here they come, kapow the ol'marlin 35 rem goes off, and she just dropped..
Being that this is now my second deer, and I consider my self a pro, I ignore my pops advice, March right up, grab it by the hind leg to getter dressed out,....and received a horrendous kick dead center to the thigh. I finished her off right quick, then danced around trying not to cry.. for the next month or so I had to try not to limp or let my pop see the giant, purple/black bruise on my thigh.
( I would of had more then that bruise if he knew ).... lesson learned ...the very hard way...lol

 

[StumpGrinder]

Well, we got there in an honest way, since it began about shot placement with a .22lr. Shot placement discussions can require a discussion about cartridges. You might not shoot a whitetail in the same spot with a .458 win mag that you would a .243 and so on.

Yes, the point I was trying to make was that a well placed shot is more valuable than the size or velocity of the bullet. What ever you shoot, practice, practice, practice. Your effective range with a bow is whatever range you can hit a paper plate every time. The same holds true with a rifle or pistol. Off hand my effective range with rifle pistol or bow is about the same. However when I can get a solid rest my rifle range goes up to around 500 yards. Pistol maybe 100 yards. Practice is the key.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Yes, the point I was trying to make was that a well placed shot is more valuable than the size or velocity of the bullet. What ever you shoot, practice, practice, practice. Your effective range with a bow is whatever range you can hit a paper plate every time. The same holds true with a rifle or pistol. Off hand my effective range with rifle pistol or bow is about the same. However when I can get a solid rest my rifle range goes up to around 500 yards. Pistol maybe 100 yards. Practice is the key.

I'd like to see you hit that paper plate at 100y with a pistol.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I'd like to see you hit that paper plate at 100y with a pistol.

Ruger Red Hawk 44 mag with a 2- 7 scope. I have killed deer with it at 75 yards and it has a 2 inch group at 50 yards. Braced against the tree stand or off a shooting bench IT'S like a short rifle. Again, practice is the key.

 

[nicholasjohn]

After thinking about it for a minute, I remembered that my "buddy" with the 3 head shots in one weekend had a 22 magnum.

My buddy's grandfather used to shoot "garden deer" with the 22 magnum, and shot them right behind the shoulder - jut like he did it with is 300 Savage in the regular deer season. That little gun dropped them to their knees right now. I think this was because they were not all keyed-up from being chased around by hunters, and in the summertime when these depredation permits get used a lot, they didn't take much killing to give up the ghost. When they're just standing around in the crops, a little bullet in the right spot does the trick. The key point, though, is that there are more variables in the equation than the size of the cartridge and shot placement. Both are important, but so are a lot of other things.

 

[nicholasjohn]

So this story is probably cringeworthy but it's true, so I'll tell it. One winter I was splitting firewood in the front yard and I heard my little brother hollering from a field next to the house. I looked up and he had a whitetail doe by the back legs in what can only be described as "wheel-barrowing" it towards the house. He was about 10 and had taken his Marlin 30-30 hunting, and shot this doe in the spine in the middle of her back. She wasn't dead but couldn't move the back half of her body. He decided that being roughly a mile away from the house that keeping her head pointed at the house and holding her hind legs off the ground would allow her to aid in her own recovery. He drove her, (I said what I said), into the yard and finished her. I laughed about that for..... well, I'm still laughing about it.

I'll bet the doe didn't think it was all that funny .......

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I'll bet the doe didn't think it was all that funny .......

That's very true, but if we making decisions based on how they felt about things, we'd all vote for Joe Biden and we would play vegan hopscotch instead of hunting at all. It wasn't humane, but neither is bow hunting..... ever..

 

[nicholasjohn]

That's very true, but if we making decisions based on how they felt about things, we'd all vote for Joe Biden and we would play vegan hopscotch instead of hunting at all. It wasn't humane, but neither is bow hunting..... ever..

I don't think deer have feelings, anyway, much less a sense of humor. A lot of the happenings surrounding a deer kill are kinda comical, but usually only from the perspective of the guy behind the rifle. It kinda sucks to be low on the food chain, and the vegan thing can put people in the same position as a half-shot deer. I don't even want to talk about the biden issue, since that makes me feel exactly like the deer in your story ..........