Whitetail POI...... What’s your intended Target?

[StumpGrinder]

I prefer high shoulder or just in front of the shoulder. They always drop right there. No tracking required.

I have a friend that always takes the high shoulder shot but he always has his processed. I clean my own so I avoid the high shoulder because of the meat damage. I'VE taken many deer here in NC with 22lr inside 75 yards with head and neck shots but even broadside with 22 solids gives a double lung, complete pass through. AND the bullet tumbles on its way through causing hollow point type damage. The 22 doesn't spook them so they usually just walk around a little and then lay down.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I've never aimed for the heart. Because I like eating the heart. I also think that lung shots are easier to make, have more room for error, and kill just as fast.
It's inevitable that some meat will be lost when you shoot an animal anywhere else than through the skull. So it's not that I'm a trophy hunter (I don't think I have a single pic of me holding up a rack of a deer/elk I've killed) as much as I just accept there's meat loss and go for the lungs. When it's an option for deer season, I usually prefer does anyway. Their meat usually is a little fattier and tastes better.

Any animal I've killed usually goes straight to a butcher or straight to my shop where I can do the cleaning myself. I understand the desire to trophy hunt, but I honestly don't care. I like meat. I like the chase, the "hunt" part of the hunt.

When it comes to meat damage, I'm not picky. I'd have no problems stepping up in caliber if it meant faster kills on game. In the end, I don't want the game to suffer at all, even for a moment if possible. If I shot an elk with a 308 and it ran 200 yards before dropping, with perfect shot placement, my next trip I would probably at least have stepped up to a 30-06 or a 300 win mag. I prefer the instant they get hit to fall. We're all lucky enough to have been born humans. If I was born a wild animal, I'd want my death to be instant. I'll sacrifice a bit of meat to ensure a painless death.

My only regrets in hunting have been when I made a bad shot and caused an animal to suffer. But that's just my $0.02

The only Painless death is head shots!!! The high shoulder causes immediate paralysis not immediate death. I have had to finish off a couple shot in the high shoulder. Yes, they dropped straight down but the were not dead when I got to them. That's why I carry a pistol.

 

[StumpGrinder]

Provided you never ever botch a shot in the field by more than 1 inch. Sooner or later you'll see or do something that makes you feel sick.

the head is a difficult target, deer can and do jerk their heads up quickly if on the alert. They are trying to catch you moving. Let them settle into eating, watch them and learn their body language. Then you can take those shots with confidence.

 

[StumpGrinder]

Well, in Virginia, we can take many deer a season. The base license is for 3 bucks and 3 does, and you can buy as many bonus doe tags as you want, 3 at a time.
That said, over the last 35 years, I would guess I have shot probably 150 or more deer, some big, some not so big. Probably every conceivable placement (on purpose and accident!). Over this time, I have learned several things.
1. Shooting a deer in the head will sometimes "lock" joints and stiffen meat. Not my choice of shot.
2. The best shot placement can and will result in different results for different deer. One might drop in place, while another may run 1500 yards. You cant predict which one you are shooting at.
3. Just as you wouldnt shot a large caliber man with a small caliber bullet, I refuse to hunt with some of the smaller calibers such as .243. Even at close range, most deer will run considerable distances. Chose the largest caliber you can comfortably and accurately shoot. Personally, I have killed more of my deer with a Model 70 in .264 win mag than with any other caliber. Close or far, has the punch to do the job.

here in NC it's the same, except 4 does and 2 bucks. I have a friend that feels the way you do. He says you have to have at least .30 for deer and yet ha has lost deer with his 300 wm, his 45-70 and his marlin 444. As soon as they made it legal here to shot them with 22lr that's all I used for 2 seasons and didn't lose any!!! Most don't even run away, they flinch, walk around till they get sleepy and lay down. Most of the time they go right back to eating like nothing happened. It may not be painless but it appears gentle.

 

[StumpGrinder]

here in NC it's the same, except 4 does and 2 bucks. I have a friend that feels the way you do. He says you have to have at least .30 for deer and yet ha has lost deer with his 300 wm, his 45-70 and his marlin 444. As soon as they made it legal here to shot them with 22lr that's all I used for 2 seasons and didn't lose any!!! Most don't even run away, they flinch, walk around till they get sleepy and lay down. Most of the time they go right back to eating like nothing happened. It may not be painless but it appears gentle.

not to change the thread but I have a Remington760 Gamemaster in .223 Remington. Blue book of gun values places its worth at $1000 to $ 1400. They only made about 2700 of them in this caliber. I would like to trade for a Ruger M77 GS 5.56. I am a Ruger guy! I don't know how to post this on the bulletin board.

 

[Rifleman97]

The only Painless death is head shots!!! The high shoulder causes immediate paralysis not immediate death. I have had to finish off a couple shot in the high shoulder. Yes, they dropped straight down but the were not dead when I got to them. That's why I carry a pistol.

You're right that headshots are the only truly painless death. However headshots for me are usually unethical. Usually when I see deer they're looking around, or the head isn't at a good angle, or it's at a range where I cannot make a clean headshot, where lungs are the best option.

But something else to note is human gunshot victims often say that they go into shock so fast they never felt the pain until recovery. So a round to the lungs is probably more painless than we initially think, even if the brain has activity for a few minutes after the heart stops.

 

[StumpGrinder]

You're right that headshots are the only truly painless death. However headshots for me are usually unethical. Usually when I see deer they're looking around, or the head isn't at a good angle, or it's at a range where I cannot make a clean headshot, where lungs are the best option.

But something else to note is human gunshot victims often say that they go into shock so fast they never felt the pain until recovery. So a round to the lungs is probably more painless than we initially think, even if the brain has activity for a few minutes after the heart stops.

I agree and the head shots I take are 50 yards or less with 22 and 100 yards or less with rifle. At those distances I can put 5 shots in an inch or less. And I wait untill the deer have settled.

 

[nicholasjohn]

You're right that headshots are the only truly painless death. However headshots for me are usually unethical. Usually when I see deer they're looking around, or the head isn't at a good angle, or it's at a range where I cannot make a clean headshot, where lungs are the best option.

But something else to note is human gunshot victims often say that they go into shock so fast they never felt the pain until recovery. So a round to the lungs is probably more painless than we initially think, even if the brain has activity for a few minutes after the heart stops.

I don't think that deer, or any animals for that matter, experience pain the same way we do as humans. A considerable amount of our pain is fear, as in how are we going to support our family with this broken leg ? Deer can't think like that, so they are probably limited to the actual physical pain of the injury to their body, minus the scary part involving the ramifications of the injury. I used to go to a doctor who was a veterinarian before he went to medical school to become a "people doctor" and he said that ungulates brains aren't developed to anywhere near the point the human brain is, and emotion and reason are not within their mental capabilities.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I don't think that deer, or any animals for that matter, experience pain the same way we do as humans. A considerable amount of our pain is fear, as in how are we going to support our family with this broken leg ? Deer can't think like that, so they are probably limited to the actual physical pain of the injury to their body, minus the scary part involving the ramifications of the injury. I used to go to a doctor who was a veterinarian before he went to medical school to become a "people doctor" and he said that ungulates brains aren't developed to anywhere near the point the human brain is, and emotion and reason are not within their mental capabilities.

I guess that's why we eat them!

 

[nicholasjohn]

I guess that's why we eat them!

Yes ..... and because they're so tasty !!!!

 

[Betarider]

High shoulder/neck-shoulder junction when possible but just in general the chest region, i'll explain more. I've done quite a few different shots over the years, some deliberate (lots of heart, lung), some not having hit where I meant. Got very lucky and learned a lot one time as a teenager, hit a bit high and back and ended up hitting it in the liver, all but blew up the liver (270, 130 soft points, inside
150 yards...you know what that looks like). The thing just froze right there, staggered very drunkenly maybe 10 steps, piled up. Lifted its head twice then it was over. To this day I have never seen a heartshot deer freeze and go down like that. Later learned that in boxing a left hook to the liver (midway down right side of torso) can incapacitate a person more brutally than a punch to the face sometimes. Was actually a good visual lesson to refrain from excessive drinking - the liver is no less essential than the heart or lungs, don't hurt it! I would never intentionally make the liver my target, but it's good to know how effective that is. And when field dressing the way that thing had truly, completely bled out was just crazy to me.

had a very unfortunate unintended poi, also as a learning teenager. Shooting way further than I had any business shooting at that time and skill level in my life, to this day I will never even think about screwing around with headshots after what happened. They are unreliable and needlessly cruel if botched - if you can guarantee you'll never be more than 1 inch off intended impact spot I suppose go for it (but also I don't believe you ). Blew the creature's lower jaw right off. Tracked it over a quarter mile, the blood trail was tremendous at least. Finished the job, it was still standing when I shot it again, in the chest, humanely dropping it. Wasn't pretty. Felt like the biggest ***hole on earth for quite a while. Learned my lesson, only needed to learn that one once. No attempted headshots. To my mind they are foolish, arrogant, and horrific if botched.

I have a saying for that and it goes like this... I'm not a good enough shooter to hit a deer in the head so I'll shoot for the bigger target,the chest. That way no matter how bad a shot it will eventually die. For me it's the head and dead and the groundhog is the summer training tool!
If you don't practice you'll never have the confidence to shoot like a pro.

 

[Betarider]

I guess that's why we eat them!

Shoot a deer in a field everyday for a week and the deer stop coming to the field. If fear of death wasn't in those deer why don't they return to the field the next day??

 

[wv270wsm]

Shoot a deer in a field everyday for a week and the deer stop coming to the field. If fear of death wasn't in those deer why don't they return to the field the next day??

I don't know if it's "death" they fear or just humans period. I've seen and have shot a bunch at close and longer range and when they drop instantly the others just stand and look . Sometimes. Then others they may run just a little ways . But as soon as they see you coming to retrieve your prize they will run every single time. Not trying to start an argument but that's been my experience

 

[Betarider]

In the 60's there saw a gun writer for, Outdoor Life, his name was Jack O'Conner. He was a great author. He always said, a lung shoot deer will only go as far as it can hold it's breath. I, would say, the same holds true for a hart shot deer. No matter what you shoot. It is dead, it just hasn't realised it.

As in that sucker ran 500yards