Whitetail POI...... What’s your intended Target?

[Betarider]

The only Painless death is head shots!!! The high shoulder causes immediate paralysis not immediate death. I have had to finish off a couple shot in the high shoulder. Yes, they dropped straight down but the were not dead when I got to them. That's why I carry a pistol.

The meat tastes better if the deer never heard the shot. As apposed to laying in it's own blood,kicking and fighting for life.
But only one way that works...headshots

 

[Calvin45]

I have a saying for that and it goes like this... I'm not a good enough shooter to hit a deer in the head so I'll shoot for the bigger target,the chest. That way no matter how bad a shot it will eventually die. For me it's the head and dead and the groundhog is the summer training tool!
If you don't practice you'll never have the confidence to shoot like a pro.

Nothing "eventual" about it. I don't think I'll ever imagine myself to be so infallible as to never be off intended point of aim by more than an inch, which is what's required for ethical headshots. It's got nothing to do with not being a good enough shooter it's about going with the most certain outcome possible out of respect for the creature after having learned the hard way exactly once.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Over the years I've seen a whole pile of deer shot in the head illegally (here in TN) with a 22lr, and I've never seen one drop. Coyotes ate them all eventually. I had a "buddy" that told me how he always killed them that way, and I watched him wound 3 does in one weekend. He hit all 3, I saw it happen, and all 3 ran off without any blood trail to follow, and they were never recovered. I worked for a farmer that used to have a depredation permit to kill deer in his fields year round, and I've seen him shoot a dozen or more over a couple of years with a 22lr. He would try to make head shots, but he shot some of them in the lungs, and I never saw one of those deer die. Every single one disappeared into the woods. And finally, my own story: when I was an eager 14 year old alone in the woods squirrel hunting with my 22lr, I had a doe walk right to me, like 20y, and I opened up on her with my 22lr. I probably hit her in the lung area 5 times or more at point blank range. I pursued the tiny drops of blood for miles until I couldn't find anymore blood, and never found her. So, I'm far from calling you a liar, however, I think shooting an animal bigger than a raccoon with a 22lr, unless it is in a trap or you are at point blank range harvesting a domestic animal is a really bad idea. I've seen coyotes run off after taking a solid .223 or a .204 round to the chest, and if they get to 40lbs they are a monster. I think, (this is my opinion, based on the massive number of deer I've shot and seen killed), that you need a relatively fast 6mm cartridge or bigger to responsibly kill whitetail. Sure, you can kill them with a 22lr, sure, you can kill them with a .223, but I don't care what anyone says because I've seen it too many times, you will lose some. When they allowed the .223 to be used for whitetail here in TN and everybody with an ar15 was out there winging them, the coyotes ate good. I hunt with enough gun so that I have the ability to reach the vitals on any reasonable angle. I want to know that my bullet isn't going to spall on the shoulder and do no real damage, and while bullet selection is key, nothing beats energy. I want to be able to go straight through the shoulder socket and kill, in case that is the only shot I have.

 

[Calvin45]

Over the years I've seen a whole pile of deer shot in the head illegally (here in TN) with a 22lr, and I've never seen one drop. Coyotes ate them all eventually. I had a "buddy" that told me how he always killed them that way, and I watched him wound 3 does in one weekend. He hit all 3, I saw it happen, and all 3 ran off without any blood trail to follow, and they were never recovered. I worked for a farmer that used to have a depredation permit to kill deer in his fields year round, and I've seen him shoot a dozen or more over a couple of years with a 22lr. He would try to make head shots, but he shot some of them in the lungs, and I never saw one of those deer die. Every single one disappeared into the woods. And finally, my own story: when I was an eager 14 year old alone in the woods squirrel hunting with my 22lr, I had a doe walk right to me, like 20y, and I opened up on her with my 22lr. I probably hit her in the lung area 5 times or more at point blank range. I pursued the tiny drops of blood for miles until I couldn't find anymore blood, and never found her. So, I'm far from calling you a liar, however, I think shooting an animal bigger than a raccoon with a 22lr, unless it is in a trap or you are at point blank range harvesting a domestic animal is a really bad idea. I've seen coyotes run off after taking a solid .223 or a .204 round to the chest, and if they get to 40lbs they are a monster. I think, (this is my opinion, based on the massive number of deer I've shot and seen killed), that you need a relatively fast 6mm cartridge or bigger to responsibly kill whitetail. Sure, you can kill them with a 22lr, sure, you can kill them with a .223, but I don't care what anyone says because I've seen it too many times, you will lose some. When they allowed the .223 to be used for whitetail here in TN and everybody with an ar15 was out there winging them, the coyotes ate good. I hunt with enough gun so that I have the ability to reach the vitals on any reasonable angle. I want to know that my bullet isn't going to spall on the shoulder and do no real damage, and while bullet selection is key, nothing beats energy. I want to be able to go straight through the shoulder socket and kill, in case that is the only shot I have.

Amen! Same thing up here in Saskatchewan, two years ago (I think) they changed the big game minimum caliber limit from .243 to make the .223 legal and I for one think that was very unnecessary and ill advised. I know a 22lr and other small rounds can kill big stuff - dad tells me of a long deceased great uncle who fed his family through the dirty thirties with a .22 hornet, including a few moose. That was out of necessity and scarcity. I think that drawing the line at .243 Winchester made all the sense in the world. There is no reason you can't use an appropriate tool for the job. All this talk of head shooting and using a .22 is not out of necessity or scarcity or any of that, it is showmanship, it is stunting, it is juvenile. Just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

After thinking about it for a minute, I remembered that my "buddy" with the 3 head shots in one weekend had a 22 magnum.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Amen! Same thing up here in Saskatchewan, two years ago (I think) they changed the big game minimum caliber limit from .243 to make the .223 legal and I for one think that was very unnecessary and I'll advised. I know a 22lr and other small rounds can kill big stuff - dad tells me of a long deceased great uncle who fed his family through the dirty thirties with a .22 hornet, including a few moose. That was out of necessity and scarcity. I think that drawing the line at .243 Winchester made all the sense in the world. There is no reason you can't use an appropriate tool for the job. All this talk of head shooting and using a .22 is not out of necessity or scarcity or any of that, it is showmanship, it is stunting, it is juvenile. Just my opinion.

Here in TN we had a .25 minimum for a century. Everyone knew that the game wardens allowed you to use a .243 without any issue, but that would have been the minimum. The ar15 craze caused this switch to allow the .223 to be made legal, and it was a bad decision. Someone will be along in this thread shortly with a bunch of pictures to tell us about the 5 deer they killed at 1.5 miles with their .223, but they won't tell you about all of the deer they shot and never recovered.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I remember back when I was growing up our closest neighbor (2 miles away) raised some garbage pit bull creatures at their house, but couldn't keep them there. We killed a handful of them for them over the years for coming to our place. They would kill goats or chickens or dogs, or anything they could find, as pit bulls are want to do. Anyways, I watched him hit one what must have been at least 10 times with his 10/22. He burned it up with that .22. That dog lived for years.

 

[yr_tiger]

just below the ear, I'm not a good tracker...

 

[StumpGrinder]

As in that sucker ran 500yards

I don't think any deer could go 500 yards with a double lung shot. A single lung maybe. There is a good tutorial on YouTube about bullet placement. It talks about the triangle framed by the front shoulder bones, the diaphragm and the point where the shoulder bone attaches to the leg bone. Any shot here will result in death. However he also said that hits further back in this triangle would bleed out slower because blood vessels are smaller and more spread out at the back of the lungs than they are to the front near the heart. I don't remember the guy's name but it was a very good video. Seeing a deer replica without its skin is eye opening. I have cleaned MANY deer but I always thought the shoulder bones were right on top of the leg on a standing broadside deer. It's not so. The angle forward and up following the front of the ribcage. In essence the front shoulder of a deer is always under Spring tension, that's why when they go to take off there body drops to take off.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

The meat tastes better if the deer never heard the shot. As apposed to laying in it's own blood,kicking and fighting for life.
But only one way that works...headshots

Far from the only way that works. I've killed hundreds of them that died the second I pulled the trigger. If you hit them in the lungs with a large enough bullet moving fast enough, (in other words, an appropriate cartridge), they regularly die instantly. It is about an impact hard enough to shut down their nervous system.

 

[Hound-1]

I'm a behind the shoulder guy myself. 40+ years and well over a 100 deer never lost one that I've hit there. I stay away from the shoulder ( I'm a meat hunter..lol ) big margin for error with a 1/2 way up the body , behind that shoulder shot. If I have a quartering to or from , I aim to have the bullet come out behind / in front of the opposite shoulder. Ya some times they run a bit, but their dead. I found a buck one year after the season, barely able to lift his head, his whole bottom jaw hanging. Don't know if it was a head shot or a high neck shot gone wrong, but that poor guy suffered. Even a gut shot , would have killed him quicker.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I remember back when I was growing up our closest neighbor (2 miles away) raised some garbage pit bull creatures at their house, but couldn't keep them there. We killed a handful of them for them over the years for coming to our place. They would kill goats or chickens or dogs, or anything they could find, as pit bulls are want to do. Anyways, I watched him hit one what must have been at least 10 times with his 10/22. He burned it up with that .22. That dog lived for years.

It's all about bullet type and placement. A 22lr solid broadside through a deers ribcage will always come out the other side, unless you hit a shoulder bone. Hollow points on the other hand often DON'T penetrate deeply enough to be immediately fatal. Bullets that are longer than they are wide will tumble as they slow down. The result of this on lung tissue is devastateing, often producing damage nearly equal to a hollow point.

 

[snookntarpon]

Hijacked thread here? Shot placement was the topic, not 22 LR capabilities

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Hijacked thread here? Shot placement was the topic, not 22 LR capabilities

Well, we got there in an honest way, since it began about shot placement with a .22lr. Shot placement discussions can require a discussion about cartridges. You might not shoot a whitetail in the same spot with a .458 win mag that you would a .243 and so on.