Which replacement barrel for (long range) hunting ?

[BrentM]

3.46" COAL, I'd go 6.5x284 for sure. I have had many of these and still do. It is an excellent cartridge. I'd also do a 6.5-280AI. You could get 280AI brass and neck down. You can also go 6.5-06 brass and fire form to AI. 6.5-06 is a decent cartridge too but I'd go 6.5-284 any day. Its a good cartridge design and brass is somewhat easier to find.

 

[Alibiiv]

Hello !

I own a rifle with caliber .308 Win. and I am looking for a replacement barrel
with a caliber that has less wind drift than .308 Win.

Quite easy it is for me to change the barrel to

• .25-06 Rem.
• 6.5 x 47 Lapua
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 6.5 x 55 SE
• 6.5 x 57
• 6.5 x 65 RWS
• 6.5-284 Norma
• .270 Win.
• 7mm-08 Rem.
• 7 x 57
• 7 x 64

because I only need to change the barrel. No changes needed at the system.

My requirements are

• not more recoil than .308 Win.
• same or better precision than .308 Win.
• working good with lead free bullets
• much less wind drift than .308 Win.
• much flatter trajectory than .308 Win.
• reasonable barrel wear
• more power than .308 Win. beyond 300 yards

Availability of factory ammunition is not an issue because I am reloading.

6.5 Creedmoor is shortlisted at the moment. Is 6.5 Creedmoor a good choice
or are some of the listed calibers better than 6.5 Creedmoor ?

Thanks for helping me!

Juergen

Hello !

I own a rifle with caliber .308 Win. and I am looking for a replacement barrel
with a caliber that has less wind drift than .308 Win.

Quite easy it is for me to change the barrel to

• .25-06 Rem.
• 6.5 x 47 Lapua
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 6.5 x 55 SE
• 6.5 x 57
• 6.5 x 65 RWS
• 6.5-284 Norma
• .270 Win.
• 7mm-08 Rem.
• 7 x 57
• 7 x 64

because I only need to change the barrel. No changes needed at the system.

My requirements are

• not more recoil than .308 Win.
• same or better precision than .308 Win.
• working good with lead free bullets
• much less wind drift than .308 Win.
• much flatter trajectory than .308 Win.
• reasonable barrel wear
• more power than .308 Win. beyond 300 yards

Availability of factory ammunition is not an issue because I am reloading.

6.5 Creedmoor is shortlisted at the moment. Is 6.5 Creedmoor a good choice
or are some of the listed calibers better than 6.5 Creedmoor ?

Thanks for helping me!

Juergen

If this were my rifle I would keep the rifle in the same cartridge, .308 Winchester. I suspect that your rifle is a "short-action" rifle, meaning that there are a number of cartridges on your list that will not work in your action, and for some of those cartridges you will have to either open the bolt face or do some modification on the feed rails. The .308 Winchester has been around for a number of years and there's a reason for that. It is an extremely versatile cartridge with a wide range of bullets that will allow on to hunt just about anything from varmints, to deer, to antelope to black bear. .308 Winchester components are readily available and they won't break the bank. If you make a decision, try going on line to find components for loading any of the cartridges on your list, they may not be available, however take a look at the price for brass. I'd definitely stick with the .308 Winchester and if.....you're concerned about recoil have the barrel threaded so a muzzle break can be used. Good luck with your rebarrel.

 

[APDDSN0864]

I haven't seen any rudeness. Thanks for so many answers!

The rifle is a Rössler Titan 6 Luxus .308 Win. They don't say
anything about short action or long action. The magazine
is 88 mm = 3.46 inch long.

They have "bolt groups". The .308 Win. is in the bolt group "Standard",
please look at the PDF Interchangeable Barrel System.

All the listed calibers in my first post are in the group "Standard" which
means that I only have to buy another barrel to change the caliber.
Sometimes a different magazine is needed but nothing else.

That's quite cheap and comfortable for me.

But: Some of the listed calibers have a twist rate which is perhaps not appropiate
for long range hunting. For example 6.5-284 Norma has a twist of 1 : 9".
I would prefer 1 : 8".

Please look at the PDF Twist Rates.

The following calibers have a twist rate of 1 : 8" = 203 mm :
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

I can get any twist rate for each caliber but the price is much higher:
perhaps $1200 instead of $700 for the barrel.

(One important point: The minimum caliber must be 6.5 mm = 0.264" or 0.250"
because it is not allowed to hunt hogs with a smaller caliber in Germany.)

Rössler is using barrels from the company "Lothar Walther" which are
quite good. I can shoot groups of less than 0.2 MOA with my .308 Win.
barrel and I don't want to lose precision when I change the barrel !

So the easiest way for me is to choose one of the 4 calibers
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

To choose one of the other calibers I need a good reason
like less wind drift, more precision, more power etc.

Thanks

Jürgen

Welcome !

My suggestion is the 6.5x65RWS. Slightly more recoil than the .308, much flatter trajectory, and more energy as you required, and your magazine length will allow you to use the heavier 6.5 bullets which the 1:8 twist will properly stabilize.
It is virtually identical to the 6.5x280AI which I use for feral Swine, whitetail and Mule deer hunting, as well as long range coyote hunting.

Ed

 

[Warbird2006]

I haven't seen any rudeness. Thanks for so many answers!

The rifle is a Rössler Titan 6 Luxus .308 Win. They don't say
anything about short action or long action. The magazine
is 88 mm = 3.46 inch long.

They have "bolt groups". The .308 Win. is in the bolt group "Standard",
please look at the PDF Interchangeable Barrel System.

All the listed calibers in my first post are in the group "Standard" which
means that I only have to buy another barrel to change the caliber.
Sometimes a different magazine is needed but nothing else.

That's quite cheap and comfortable for me.

But: Some of the listed calibers have a twist rate which is perhaps not appropiate
for long range hunting. For example 6.5-284 Norma has a twist of 1 : 9".
I would prefer 1 : 8".

Please look at the PDF Twist Rates.

The following calibers have a twist rate of 1 : 8" = 203 mm :
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

I can get any twist rate for each caliber but the price is much higher:
perhaps $1200 instead of $700 for the barrel.

(One important point: The minimum caliber must be 6.5 mm = 0.264" or 0.250"
because it is not allowed to hunt hogs with a smaller caliber in Germany.)

Rössler is using barrels from the company "Lothar Walther" which are
quite good. I can shoot groups of less than 0.2 MOA with my .308 Win.
barrel and I don't want to lose precision when I change the barrel !

So the easiest way for me is to choose one of the 4 calibers
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

To choose one of the other calibers I need a good reason
like less wind drift, more precision, more power etc.

Thanks

Jürgen

Jurgen
Keep the 308 and order another rifle. We aren't in Germany, you can have as many rifles you want over here I am serious, for $1200 per barrel? Also, the rifle will keep its value with the original barrel

 

[Juergen]

Juergen:

You have said you intend to buy a replacement barrel directly from Roessler for around $700. For that price, I am wondering if you could order a barrel from an American barrel maker already chambered, throated, and set up with the Roessler installation system.

Unfortunately I think it is not easy to import a barrel from the USA. In Germany hunting is exclusive. That raises the prices.
And the supply chain is very long: I order from my dealer, he orders from the german general importer RUAG who orders from Roessler Austria who gets the barrel from Lothar Walther Germany. And I have to pay all of them.

I asked a german company that produces barrels. They told me it is not easy to make the connection to the Roessler system. They can't do it they need parts from Roessler.

 

[epoletna]

Thanks for the reply. I suspected that was the case -- I have seen photos of the Roessler system and it does not look easy to duplicate. But I thought I would make the suggestion -- sort of "thinking outside the box."

 

[vedauvoo]

Guten Tag Herr Juergen,

Is the .280 AI on your list of barrels made for your Rössler? With your COAL magazine limit of 3.46", you can load standard length cartridges. I have had great success shooting a .280 AI for the past 30+ years. My go to load is a Barnes 150 gr TTSX (lead free "check") COAL 3.415 at a measured MV of 2906 ft/sec. This caliber has about the same recoil as a .308 (recoil "check"), is a very efficient cartridge, and is monotonously accurate. If you have access to a good gunsmith a Rössler 7x57 barrel could be reamed out to take the .280 AI. You would only be out the cost of the smithing. 30-06 brass is readily available and can be used to create a .280 Rem case. Then all you need to do is fire form and you're in business.

 

[Konocti7]

Hello !

I own a rifle with caliber .308 Win. and I am looking for a replacement barrel
with a caliber that has less wind drift than .308 Win.

Quite easy it is for me to change the barrel to

• .25-06 Rem.
• 6.5 x 47 Lapua
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 6.5 x 55 SE
• 6.5 x 57
• 6.5 x 65 RWS
• 6.5-284 Norma
• .270 Win.
• 7mm-08 Rem.
• 7 x 57
• 7 x 64

because I only need to change the barrel. No changes needed at the system.

My requirements are

• not more recoil than .308 Win.
• same or better precision than .308 Win.
• working good with lead free bullets
• much less wind drift than .308 Win.
• much flatter trajectory than .308 Win.
• reasonable barrel wear
• more power than .308 Win. beyond 300 yards

Availability of factory ammunition is not an issue because I am reloading.

6.5 Creedmoor is shortlisted at the moment. Is 6.5 Creedmoor a good choice
or are some of the listed calibers better than 6.5 Creedmoor ?

Thanks for helping me!

Juergen

The magazine(s) you have will work with 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 7x57, and 7-08 as well as 308. The Lapua has it's own magazine as does the Creedmoor. I like the 6.5x55 but then that it was I am used to and have. The magazine for 25-06 is the same as for 270. I don't think you have a bad choice there. It is what you want and the availability of ammo/brass where you live. You reload so how and where you get your brass is the only issue.

 

[cape cove]

Judging by your requirements I would think the 7mm/08 checks a lot of boxes.JMO

 

[adam32+P]

6.5x284 all day every day before I'd ever consider the Creedless.

Recoil shouldn't be a factor anymore since the invention of muzzle breaks and silencers.

 

[Juergen]

@JTB : You mean the Berger EOL Elite Hunter 156 gn #26550 ? If yes, what is the twist rate of your barrel ? Some people told me about problems to stabilize a 156 gn bullet. Unfortunately RL 26 is not available in Germany. But Norma MRP should be ok too.

@MagnumManiac : There is no doubt that 6.5 x 47 Lapua is an excellent round. You need only 41,3 gn powder for a maximum load, barrel life time is very high, recoil is small.
But I am not sure if I want or need more power.

@Buckys : I looked at the available bullets for .277 and it seems to me that only the very heavy bullets have a high BC. It seems to me that it is easier to get .264 bullets with a better BC and better wind drift. That's the reason why I am not sure to take a .270 Win. barrel.

@Lionel Boyd Johnson : 7-08 is bigger than .270 and I think it is not easy to get bullets with the same high BC as the .264 bullets. I think I need a lot of power to accelerate .284 bullets so much that they have the same wind drift as .264 bullets.

@BrentM : I never necked down brass. I am not sure if I get the same quality as factory made cases.

@Alibiiv : It is very easy to change the barrel, so I can use both, the .308 and the .264. I feel very comfortable with .308 for training and short distances. I would like to have a caliber with less wind drift and not to much recoil.

@APDDSN0864 : Thanks for your suggestion. 6.5 x 65 RWS is shortlisted too. One problem is that brass is quite expensive.

@vedauvoo : Perhaps a .280 AI or a 7 mm Rem Mag is possibly my next rifle. You can reach about 2000 yards and it has a reasonable recoil.

Thanks to all for your suggestions !

 

[HunterMann]

I have used a 260 Rem for many years with bullets weights from 120gr to 160gr. Very accurate and easy to shoot. Reloading components are easy to get in USA but I cannot speak to your location. I really like the Lapua 155gr MEGA point for larger game and big boars. So many options around 129gn it is hard to choose. Your best choice may come down to ammo and reloading parts availability...

 

[BrentM]

@JTB : You mean the Berger EOL Elite Hunter 156 gn #26550 ? If yes, what is the twist rate of your barrel ? Some people told me about problems to stabilize a 156 gn bullet. Unfortunately RL 26 is not available in Germany. But Norma MRP should be ok too.

@MagnumManiac : There is no doubt that 6.5 x 47 Lapua is an excellent round. You need only 41,3 gn powder for a maximum load, barrel life time is very high, recoil is small.
But I am not sure if I want or need more power.

@Buckys : I looked at the available bullets for .277 and it seems to me that only the very heavy bullets have a high BC. It seems to me that it is easier to get .264 bullets with a better BC and better wind drift. That's the reason why I am not sure to take a .270 Win. barrel.

@Lionel Boyd Johnson : 7-08 is bigger than .270 and I think it is not easy to get bullets with the same high BC as the .264 bullets. I think I need a lot of power to accelerate .284 bullets so much that they have the same wind drift as .264 bullets.

@BrentM : I never necked down brass. I am not sure if I get the same quality as factory made cases.

@Alibiiv : It is very easy to change the barrel, so I can use both, the .308 and the .264. I feel very comfortable with .308 for training and short distances. I would like to have a caliber with less wind drift and not to much recoil.

@APDDSN0864 : Thanks for your suggestion. 6.5 x 65 RWS is shortlisted too. One problem is that brass is quite expensive.

@vedauvoo : Perhaps a .280 AI or a 7 mm Rem Mag is possibly my next rifle. You can reach about 2000 yards and it has a reasonable recoil.

Thanks to all for your suggestions !

Necking down brass has ZERO affect on brass quality. Brass is good quality or bad quality to begin with.

 

[JTB]

@JTB : You mean the Berger EOL Elite Hunter 156 gn #26550 ? If yes, what is the twist rate of your barrel ? Some people told me about problems to stabilize a 156 gn bullet. Unfortunately RL 26 is not available in Germany. But Norma MRP should be ok too.

@MagnumManiac : There is no doubt that 6.5 x 47 Lapua is an excellent round. You need only 41,3 gn powder for a maximum load, barrel life time is very high, recoil is small.
But I am not sure if I want or need more power.

@Buckys : I looked at the available bullets for .277 and it seems to me that only the very heavy bullets have a high BC. It seems to me that it is easier to get .264 bullets with a better BC and better wind drift. That's the reason why I am not sure to take a .270 Win. barrel.

@Lionel Boyd Johnson : 7-08 is bigger than .270 and I think it is not easy to get bullets with the same high BC as the .264 bullets. I think I need a lot of power to accelerate .284 bullets so much that they have the same wind drift as .264 bullets.

@BrentM : I never necked down brass. I am not sure if I get the same quality as factory made cases.

@Alibiiv : It is very easy to change the barrel, so I can use both, the .308 and the .264. I feel very comfortable with .308 for training and short distances. I would like to have a caliber with less wind drift and not to much recoil.

@APDDSN0864 : Thanks for your suggestion. 6.5 x 65 RWS is shortlisted too. One problem is that brass is quite expensive.

@vedauvoo : Perhaps a .280 AI or a 7 mm Rem Mag is possibly my next rifle. You can reach about 2000 yards and it has a reasonable recoil.

Thanks to all for your suggestions !

Correct, the 156 Berger EOL and 1:8 will stabilize. In rereading my post I should clarify the the 156 is all I am using for big game if choosing to take a CM. I have a very light CM that I take when backpacking longer distances and the grandkids love to take on hunts (I am getting to that age where carry weight begins to matter). My son is into pack goats so that helps and I think he got into them so we can keep going on longer pack-in hunts : ) This past year I used a 25 CM using the 131 Blackjack and it was perfect out to 860 yards on deer.
I don't know about the MRP in a CM; I use RL26 and H4350 exclusively in the CM. If you are okay with a little more recoil I like the 6.5-284 as others have mentioned. I think my next build will be a 270x280 AI as I have a lot of 270 pills with no rifle sine I converted my 270 WSM to a 25 PRC and I have a LA M70 action with standard bolt face not in use. There is no end to this debate but that is what makes it interesting. Bottom line is that whatever you choose, it will be a great choice and you will find a sweet spot that works for you. Enjoy