Which replacement barrel for (long range) hunting ?

[Juergen]

@Timnterra : I compared the ELD-M 162 (BC G7 = .338) with the 6.5 CM ELD-M 147
which has a BC G7 of .351 .
The result of QuickLOAD and shooterscalculator.com is that the ELD-M 162 has a little more
power and a little more 10 mph wind drift: 7.85 inch compared to 7.26 inch at 400 yards.
I am sure it would be also a good choice.

@Ranger Rick : Thank you for your detailed post ! I think I will get the prices from my dealer next week.
He himself had both, 6.5 CM and 6.5-284 Norma, and he prefers the Creedmoor with 24 inch. He spokes
about some problems with the 6.5-284 Norma and that he prefers the 6.5 PRC which is not available
from Rössler. I will talk to him.

 

[Timnterra]

@Timnterra : I compared the ELD-M 162 (BC G7 = .338) with the 6.5 CM ELD-M 147
which has a BC G7 of .351 .
The result of QuickLOAD and shooterscalculator.com is that the ELD-M 162 has a little more
power and a little more 10 mph wind drift: 7.85 inch compared to 7.26 inch at 400 yards.
I am sure it would be also a good choice.

@Ranger Rick : Thank you for your detailed post ! I think I will get the prices from my dealer next week.
He himself had both, 6.5 CM and 6.5-284 Norma, and he prefers the Creedmoor with 24 inch. He spokes
about some problems with the 6.5-284 Norma and that he prefers the 6.5 PRC which is not available
from Rössler. I will talk to him.

The published velocity for Hornady 147eldm 6.5 creedmoor match ammo is 2695 here is a drop chart from 600-700 yds comparing the 7-08 with the 162eldm at 2750 fps the 7-08 is still beating the 6.5 out past 1000yds. The 147 has got to start faster to make any difference.

 

[BrentM]

The published velocity for Hornady 147eldm 6.5 creedmoor match ammo is 2695 here is a drop chart from 600-700 yds comparing the 7-08 with the 162eldm at 2750 fps the 7-08 is still beating the 6.5 out past 1000yds. The 147 has got to start faster to make any difference.

So load down a creed and hop up a 7-08 or are you taking a factory load vs a factory load?

 

[Timnterra]

So load down a creed and hop up a 7-08 or are you taking a factory load vs a factory load?

That's a fair question. I have never loaded 147gr bullets in a creedmoor so I used the factory ammo. No factory ammo exists with the 7mm-08 and the 162gr bullet so i took a close to max load from the Nosler book to get the the 2750 velocity. Im sure people load both cartridges with those bullets to higher pressure and obtain faster velocity but I tried to make the comparison fair.

 

[BrentM]

That's a fair question. I have never loaded 147gr bullets in a creedmoor so I used the factory ammo. No factory ammo exists with the 7mm-08 and the 162gr bullet so i took a close to max load from the Nosler book to get the the 2750 velocity. Im sure people load both cartridges with those bullets to higher pressure and obtain faster velocity but I tried to make the comparison fair.

2750 for a 7-08 is realistic but fast. 2700 for a 147 in a creed is realistic but slower. If you run a 162 advertised 338 bc at 2750 and a 147 advertised 351 bc at 2700 the creed shows .6 moa more drop and .2 less drift in a 10mph wind than the 08. The only advantage a 7-08 gives in this example is energy and isn't much. I spend a fair amount of time looking at Hodgdon website reloading data and I had a 7-08 and have a couple creeds. You can get 2800 out of a 7-08 with 160's as well with the right powder. My 26" creed runs a 147 at 2791 with an easy load for PRS comp. In the end I switched back to the 140 at 2800 for manageable recoil and fun factor. I do actually really like a 7-08AI as it gives very similar performance to a 284 without needing a medium to long action.

 

[Timnterra]

I never looked at the published BC of either bullet, I just plugged the numbers into applied ballistics and looked at the difference. Brian Litz has the 147 with a bc of .315 instead of .351 and the 162 with a bc of .327. I don't know if those are actual tested BC numbers or not. but it would account for why my numbers show the 7-08 winning out over the 6.5

 

[BrentM]

I never looked at the published BC of either bullet, I just plugged the numbers into applied ballistics and looked at the difference. Brian Litz has the 147 with a bc of .315 instead of .351 and the 162 with a bc of .327. I don't know if those are actual tested BC numbers or not. but it would account for why my numbers show the 7-08 winning out over the 6.5

Gotcha. I've run the 147 for years and never had to lower to his number. I can see why your data is showing the 162 to be better. With the 147 for a single step I ran 330 and for the 3 stage I ran Hornady data. It has always been spot on for me. Most of my shooting is under 1500 yards.

 

[Juergen]

Brian Litz has the 147 with a bc of .315 instead of .351 and the 162 with a bc of .327.

Is this published somewhere in the internet? I am always looking for such independent datas.

 

[Timnterra]

Is this published somewhere in the internet? I am always looking for such independent datas.

It's the BC given in the mobile phone application "Applied Ballistics"

 

[Juergen]

It's the BC given in the mobile phone application "Applied Ballistics"

Would you recommend it? The rating is average. Costs ~ $ 30.
Independent measurements of BCs would be reason enough for me to buy it.

 

[Timnterra]

It is the only ballistic calculator that I trust. It came preloaded on my Kestrel 5700 AB and it is trusted and used by the top shooters in the world. It was developed by Brian Ltiz the chief ballistic scientist and designer of bullets at Berger.

 

[BrentM]

Top shooters actually use custom drag curves generally and applied ballistics is 1 of a handful of ballistic programs. 4dof, 6dof, strelock, and ab are the top of the pile for the majority of shooters. Litz assigns a bc value to the most popular and effective billets, not all. The focus is on long range target and some hunting bullets.
Kestrel offers a couple different programs and one is the 4dof. Pick your poison but at this point it's splitting hairs down to 50 fps differences and a few points on the bc scale. Both of which can be argued and debated. Heck we have forum members who claim to run 2900-3000 easily with creeds and no signs of pressure. Don't know how they do it but that's not the point. Point is we can debate a lot of this stuff and drive ourselves crazy.

 

[Juergen]

@Timnterra : Thanks! I will buy it.

@BrentM : I use Strelok Pro at the moment.

Today I got the information from my dealer that the standard twist for 6.5-284 Norma ist 8 inch and not 9 inch as written in the PDF. So it is a new option for me to buy a 24" barrel caliber 6.5-284 Norma for 790 € including the magazine.

The only problem is that even the 8 inch twist limits the use of heavier lead free bullets.
It seems to me that 140 gr is the limit for lead free bullets for 8" twist. Are their any
150 or 160 gr bullets on the market that I can use with 6.5-284 Norma? May be usefull
for bigger boars.

Here is a link to a Lothar Walther barrel 6.5-284 Norma: Shooting accuracy of cal. 6,5-284 Norma.
I can't see how big the group is.

 

[BrentM]

@Timnterra : Thanks! I will buy it.

@BrentM : I use Strelok Pro at the moment.

Today I got the information from my dealer that the standard twist for 6.5-284 Norma ist 8 inch and not 9 inch as written in the PDF. So it is a new option for me to buy a 24" barrel caliber 6.5-284 Norma for 790 € including the magazine.

The only problem is that even the 8 inch twist limits the use of heavier lead free bullets.
It seems to me that 140 gr is the limit for lead free bullets for 8" twist. Are their any
150 or 160 gr bullets on the market that I can use with 6.5-284 Norma? May be usefull
for bigger boars.

Here is a link to a Lothar Walther barrel 6.5-284 Norma: Shooting accuracy of cal. 6,5-284 Norma.
I can't see how big the group is.

156 eol, 153 vld, 153 a tip, 150 Sierra, 155 matrix.

I have a couple 6.5-284 24"'s and they are nice. Good compromise of balance, handling, and speed. Run rl26 or n560 it'll easily 3000.