Which replacement barrel for (long range) hunting ?

[Hard rock]

Correct, the 156 Berger EOL and 1:8 will stabilize. In rereading my post I should clarify the the 156 is all I am using for big game if choosing to take a CM. I have a very light CM that I take when backpacking longer distances and the grandkids love to take on hunts (I am getting to that age where carry weight begins to matter). My son is into pack goats so that helps and I think he got into them so we can keep going on longer pack-in hunts : ) This past year I used a 25 CM using the 131 Blackjack and it was perfect out to 860 yards on deer.
I don't know about the MRP in a CM; I use RL26 and H4350 exclusively in the CM. If you are okay with a little more recoil I like the 6.5-284 as others have mentioned. I think my next build will be a 270x280 AI as I have a lot of 270 pills with no rifle sine I converted my 270 WSM to a 25 PRC and I have a LA M70 action with standard bolt face not in use. There is no end to this debate but that is what makes it interesting. Bottom line is that whatever you choose, it will be a great choice and you will find a sweet spot that works for you. Enjoy

The way I'm reading the original post this seems to be a switch barrel system that Juergen is looking for something besides his 308 barrel that the offerings are 270 6.5-284 Norma etc my assumption is it is a long action the 6.5 -284 should work fine that would be my choice but definitely in a 1-8 twist if this is a quality switch barrel he will be money ahead in the long run same scope trigger stock action correct me if I'm wrong I read the original post thats my understanding Juergen wants something flatter shooting less recoil etc

 

[BrentM]

The way I'm reading the original post this seems to be a switch barrel system that Juergen is looking for something besides his 308 barrel that the offerings are 270 6.5-284 Norma etc my assumption is it is a long action the 6.5 -284 should work fine that would be my choice but definitely in a 1-8 twist if this is a quality switch barrel he will be money ahead in the long run same scope trigger stock action correct me if I'm wrong I read the original post thats my understanding Juergen wants something flatter shooting less recoil etc

That's how I read it too. Exactly why I'd do the 6.5-284 in a heart beat and be done with it. I have a couple switch barrel set ups and it's awesome for me. I can go from a small base to a magnum cartridge in 30 minutes or less. Really just being able swap barrels in same base size family is worth it.

 

[Juergen]

@Hard rock @BrentM : Unfortunately the 6.5-284 Norma has a twist rate 1 : 9" and if I order it in 1 : 8" it would be a custom-made article which costs 1.200 € instead of 700 €. Details I will get from my dealer in a few days. The 6.5 x 65 RWS has a 1 : 7.9 twist rate, perhaps it is an alternative to 6.5-284 Norma.

Here is a youtube video where you can see how a barrel is exchanged: Video.

 

[BrentM]

Weird. Around here all 6.5's are 8 twist.

 

[BrentM]

Heck I'd shoot a 135 out of 6.5 before I shot a 150 anything out of a 308.

 

[Hard rock]

Heck I'd shoot a 135 out of 6.5 before I shot a 150 anything out of a 308.

I have 3 - 6.5x55s 2-6.5 prcs and 2 - 6.5 x284s the 6.5 - 284s were built before all these new bullet offerings were available with the 1-9 twist barrels they shoot great really acc with bullets up to 130 gr and some 140s but I really wish they were 1 -8 twist that being said if you can get the 6.5 x 55 in a 1.7.5 twist you will be fine very tolerable recoil great accuracy barrel life and a boat load of bullet choices

 

[Hard rock]

I have 3 - 6.5x55s 2-6.5 prcs and 2 - 6.5 x284s the 6.5 - 284s were built before all these new bullet offerings were available with the 1-9 twist barrels they shoot great really acc with bullets up to 130 gr and some 140s but I really wish they were 1 -8 twist that being said if you can get the 6.5 x 55 in a 1.7.5 twist you will be fine very tolerable recoil great accuracy barrel life and a boat load of bullet choices

Correction the 6.5 rws in 1.7.9 should be fine

 

[vedauvoo]

If the Creedmoor is on your shortlist, that will be a great choice. There is some hype involved but it is a great round. I would recommend starting with Lapua SRP brass because they last longer and perform well at higher pressures. If you can get your hands on RL26 and small rifle magnum primers it will deliver some impressive performance. Have the barrel throated for the 156 EOL since you seem to have the room; that combo is all we use for big game now and I run them at 2800 fps. That will get you 1500 ft/lbs out to about 650 and 1000 ft/lbs out to about 1000 yards.

Just a thought on Reloder-26. As with JTB, I really get great performance with RL-26 in a couple of my rifles, including my .280 AI. The stuff if terrific.

RL-26 is produced by the Swiss company

Nitrochemie-Group. They load the Reload Swiss RS line powder that is not available in the US but should be available in Germany. Likely, one of their powders is close to our Alliant Reloder-26. Quickload shows Reload Swiss RS 60 and 70, Normal MRP, and Vihtavuori N560 having similar burn characteristics as RL-26, when loaded in my .280 AI to similar pressures.

 

[Buckys]

Juergen, what is the maximum distance that you would like to be able to shoot?

Personally, I am ok with limiting my hunting to no more than ~600-800 yards. For a long time, I wanted it to be longer than that, but I don't have the time I need to do my part to be ethical at longer distances.

As such, I am not as concerned about BC and wind drift. If you want to be able to kill effectively beyond that, then I would pick something that has a fast twist barrel. In that case, my choice would be a 280AI, 284WIN or maybe 7WSM/7RM. I have each one of those other than a 284 plus the 270win and 270wby are the core of my hunting rifles. 243win, 65cm and 300wm are the others. For the medium and smaller sized game that I hunt in Texas, I primarily use my 270's and 7mm's.

 

[Juergen]

@vedauvoo : exactly, all powders from Reload Swiss, Norma, Vihtavuori we can buy in Germany, also some Alliant Powders but not Reloder-26.

Juergen, what is the maximum distance that you would like to be able to shoot?

As such, I am not as concerned about BC and wind drift.

Regarding the maximum distance I have the same thoughts than you :
It should be safe to kill an animal with one shoot. If I want to shoot
a fox for example it should be safe to hit an area of two inch.

Let me say 400 yards would be satisfying, 600 yards would be superb.

If I want to go for longer distances or bigger animals I can buy another rifle.
(And I should have a lot of training.)

The wind drift at 400 yards with a Berger .264 EOL Elite Hunter 156 gn
2800 fps initial velocity at 400 yards (10 mph wind speed) will be about 8 inch.

And if the wind speed is 5 mph or 15 mph instead of 10 mph the uncertainty
at 400 yards is about +- 4 inch. And I think this 4 inch uncertainty is to much
for smaller animals. So I think that wind drift is an issue for me.

At 600 yards the Berger EOL 156 has a power of 1480 ft.lbf. That may be be enough
even for bigger boars.

But I must take into account that sometimes I am not allowed to use bullets
with lead. And I don't know a lead free bullet with the same "killing" properties
as the Berger EOL 156 at 600 yards.

We have a company in Austria (Styria Arms) that produces high quality lead free bullets
but in .264 they have only a 115 gn bullet which seems to me a little weak.

 

[BrentM]

@Juergen, I assume you know all of this but reading wind is the limiting factor in almost every situation. Using a high bc and high velocity billet limits the wind drift and error, yes, but how much does a person train on wind reading? To me that's the issue. Yes use a cartridge that reduces error, but if a person can't tell the difference in 5 vs 15 mph or even 5 vs 10 then more practice would be better than a new cartridge.

I run a 135a tip in my prc at 3100 fps. Compare that to my 156 at 2900 and there is a pro and a con to both.

in the end I still prefer a 6.5 for what I do but also really enjoy 6mm. Run a 108 or 110 at 3300-3400 and it's a wicked caliber. Just something to think about.

 

[Roninco]

Juergen:

You have said you intend to buy a replacement barrel directly from Roessler for around $700. For that price, I am wondering if you could order a barrel from an American barrel maker already chambered, throated, and set up with the Roessler installation system.

I ask because that might give you a little more flexibility -- a few more options in caliber, twist rate and throat.

If you want to stick with a Roessler barrel, that narrows your options somewhat.

Shipping costs and import taxes would probably double the cost of the barrel.

 

[Juergen]

@Juergenbut if a person can't tell the difference in 5 vs 15 mph or even 5 vs 10 then more practice would be better than a new cartridge.

I am sailing and I know that it is quite easy to read the wind at sea.
At sea the wind is quite consistent. And I have a Kestrel wind meter.
But in the nature the orography is so different that it is sometimes
impossible to estimate the wind 200 yards away.

I think my biggest problem will be to stabilize lead free bullets.
I made some calculations with cutting edge bullets. Some of them
are 1.5 inch long and they need a twist rate of 1 : 7" to stabilize.

What do you think about 1 : 7" ?

And the barrel length: 24 inch or 26 inch ?
Some people say 26 inch is not so precise as 24 inch,
more vibrations. I am not sure if I should believe this.

The diameter will be 0,75 inch. They call it "semi-weight".

 

[wkdwdg66]

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