Which replacement barrel for (long range) hunting ?

[Juergen]

156 eol, 153 vld, 153 a tip, 150 Sierra, 155 matrix.

I think these are not lead free.

 

[BrentM]

I think these are not lead free.

They are not. Most solids are 140 or less. I don't run solids

 

[Juergen]

At some places in Germany I am legaly obliged to use lead free bullets.
For example for hunting at governmental places. Cutting Edge MTH 130 gr
should work with 8" twist. MTH 140 gr perhaps. I have no experience.

The Styria Arms AERO SB 150 gr .308 Win. are deadly even for big boars.
If there is a problem with the smaller bullets I have to look for
another caliber for this purpose. Normally I am not interested
in big boars.

 

[Canhunter35]

I haven't seen any rudeness. Thanks for so many answers!

The rifle is a Rössler Titan 6 Luxus .308 Win. They don't say
anything about short action or long action. The magazine
is 88 mm = 3.46 inch long.

They have "bolt groups". The .308 Win. is in the bolt group "Standard",
please look at the PDF Interchangeable Barrel System.

All the listed calibers in my first post are in the group "Standard" which
means that I only have to buy another barrel to change the caliber.
Sometimes a different magazine is needed but nothing else.

That's quite cheap and comfortable for me.

But: Some of the listed calibers have a twist rate which is perhaps not appropiate
for long range hunting. For example 6.5-284 Norma has a twist of 1 : 9".
I would prefer 1 : 8".

Please look at the PDF Twist Rates.

The following calibers have a twist rate of 1 : 8" = 203 mm :
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

I can get any twist rate for each caliber but the price is much higher:
perhaps $1200 instead of $700 for the barrel.

(One important point: The minimum caliber must be 6.5 mm = 0.264" or 0.250"
because it is not allowed to hunt hogs with a smaller caliber in Germany.)

Rössler is using barrels from the company "Lothar Walther" which are
quite good. I can shoot groups of less than 0.2 MOA with my .308 Win.
barrel and I don't want to lose precision when I change the barrel !

So the easiest way for me is to choose one of the 4 calibers
6.5 x 47 Lapua / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5 x 57 / 6.5 x 65 RWS.

To choose one of the other calibers I need a good reason
like less wind drift, more precision, more power etc.

Thanks

Jürgen

I'm a fan of the 308, but for hunting purposes, 6.5 and 7mm outclass it on wind drift, trajectory. The 6.5 creed and 6.5x47 are both great cartridges, he 6.5x55 should have a 100fps on the other two. A 7-08 is also a great choice.

I am familiar with the Titan 6, good rifle system with interchangeable barrels and bolt head sizes.
I have a 25-06 that is exceptional on hogs, but may not extend your range beyond 600 or so yards. Any of your 6.5's listed, except the Creedless, will shoot flatter than your 308. I am a fan of the 6.5 cal, if going this way, my own have 8" twists, except my factory Win Model 70 that has a 9" twist.
Even if you go 7mm, a 8" twist is the go.
A mag length of 3.46" puts it longer than some standard length actions and could even accomodate a belted mag cartridge.
So your choices are still up to you, I had a 6.5x55 Swede for many years and it was superbly accurate, it had the 7.25" twist, 4 groove Carl Gustav barrel.
I still think the 6.5x47 fits the bill, but you may want more oomph behind your bullet. I like 140gr class pills or 123gr in my 6.5x47.

Cheers.

Cmon...any of the 6.5s except the creedless? Remember it's the ******* that frustrate not an inanimate cartridge...I'm gonna have to become a closet 6.5creed shooter. No way am I getting rid of my gun lol

 

[BrentM]

Keep in mind bullet weight is only 1 factor.
Sectional density is also a factor in terminal performance. I understand your issue on a big boat tho. Smaller hogs would be no issue but large heavy dangerous game is a different deal

 

[Juergen]

I couldn't pursue this thread for family reasons during the last three month.

I just repeat the list from post #1 and add the twist rates of the calibers:

• .25-06 Rem. - Twist 10"
• 6.5 x 47 Lapua - Twist 8"
• 6.5 Creedmoor - Twist 8"
• 6.5 x 55 SE - Twist 8.66"
• 6.5 x 57 - Twist 7.87"
• 6.5 x 65 RWS - Twist 7.87"
• 6.5-284 Norma - Twist 9"
• .270 Win. - Twist 10"
• 7mm-08 Rem. - Twist 9.5"
• 7 x 57 - Twist 8.66"
• 7 x 64 - Twist 8.66"

This is the list of barrels that I can buy for my Roessler Titan 6.
Other calibers are not supported.

Basically it is possible to order another twist rate, but I encountered a lot of problems
and so it seems to be better to take a "standard" twist rate.

7mm-08 Rem. was one of my favourite calibers but the twist rate is to slow.
Same with 6.5-284 Norma.

So I looked at 7x64. A typical old german caliber for hunting.

Of course one of my requirements are not apply with 7x64: "not more recoil than .308 Win.".
But I can load it softly and there are a lot of advantages:

1. A lot of bullets betweeen 120 and 195 gr are working with 7x64.
   (7mm-08 Rem. with 9.5" twist is not suitable for heavy bullets)
2. working good with lead free solids that are longer

and it fits nearly all of my requirements that I repeat again:

• not more recoil than .308 Win.
• same or better precision than .308 Win.
• working good with lead free bullets
• much less wind drift than .308 Win.
• much flatter trajectory than .308 Win.
• reasonable barrel wear
• more power than .308 Win. beyond 300 yards

My crucial questions is:

What's about the precision of 7x64 ?
Can I shoot hole in hole as with .308 Win. at 100 yards ?
(Of course with handmade reloaded rounds.)

Has someone of you an answer to this question?

If 7x64 satisfies my requirements on precision I would buy a 7x64 barrel
first and one of the 6.5 barrels later.

Thanks for all comments!

Jürgen

 

[wasskeet]

IMHO, if I had a .308 shooting in the 0.2" range - the only thing I would even think about is one of two choices - or both:
(1) Some Hammers to try in the .308
(2) Another rifle altogether - I would leave the .308 alone - you may not easily get another hunting rifle shooting in the .2's

 

[Juergen]

@wasskeet

1. I use the Styria Arms AERO SB 150 gr for my .308 Win. They are similiar to the Hammer.
   The Hammer I can't find in Germany. The AERO SB I can use until approx. 250 yards in my
   510 mm = 20 inch barrel. First I thought about buying another .308 Win. 27.5 inch barrel with
   a 10" twist but this is more expensive and probably not better than a 7x64 barrel.
2. I can change the barrel within 5 minutes so I don't need a second rifle at the moment.

Enclosed please find a picture of a 4 shot group at 100 m with my Roessler .308 Win.
These rounds are for training and they are reduced loads.

I don't expect the same accuracy with a 7x64 barrel but 0.4 MOA would be great.

 

[wasskeet]

Juergen,

That's a pretty remarkable group - rifle and shooter must perform to produce those size groups! I should have read more of the thread - did not realize you had a switch-barrel rifle. I cannot speak for the 7x64 in any capacity, but I would expect any of the European 6.5 cartridges to do very well. And I would think the 6.5x284 w/9 twist would handle the heavy bullets in a good barrel.

Best of luck with your decision!

 

[Juergen]

At the moment my plan is to buy a 6.5er rifle - same version as my .308 Roessler -
and a 7x64 barrel additionally.

My calculations say that the 6.5x284 Norma w/9 twist would only handle bullets until 140 gr.
Lead free solids only until 120 gr.

P.S.: The Berger Twist Rate Stability Calculator and their web site say that you need 8" twist
to stabilize their 6.5er bullets.

 

[wasskeet]

My calculations say that the 6.5x284 Norma w/9 twist would only handle bullets until 140 gr.
Lead free solids only until 120 gr.

P.S.: The Berger Twist Rate Stability Calculator and their web site say that you need 8" twist
to stabilize their 6.5er bullets.

That may well be correct - I have not shot any solids to amount to anything and cannot offer much advice on those.