What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

[SidecarFlip]

Who exactly are the other LR players from 10-20 years ago when the LR hunting game was beginning to come out of the closet? Besides NF and Leupold, which I did mention BTW there really aren't many others. Premier and S&B but they never held the market share. Bushnell but they had very limited options.

The LR game in this country started with military and LE and most all of them were trained on MILS so I am not sure the "what's comfortable" concept fits.

Scot E.

'Comfortable' is shooters advancing from shorter ranges to extended range shooting and bringing along what they are used to and comfortable with. It has a lot to do with th 'comfort zone'

20 years ago the norm was a much shorter shot than it is today thanks in part to better firearms, optics and components, but speaking for myself at least, I'm more 'at home' with MOA and thats coming from 'before' not now.

It's like unleaded gas. I'd still be using tetraethyl lead fortified gas if the gummit hadn't outlawed it and replaced it with th crap we have today called 'gasoline'

If some governing entity suddenly removed all the MOA optics and mandated that only MILs would be acceptable, we'd all learn the system and most likely be happy. Thats not the case.

Like the SFP versus FFP scenario. Give mke the old standby. It's worked well for 30 years for me, why upset the applecart.

 

[joseph]

It is 8:57 PM and I am waiting for the last debate. If Obama is elected or not he probably will sign the UN Treaty Banning small arms for all countries. Then we may not have to discuss these things anymore. What a shame if it happens. lightbulb

joseph

 

[ARTY SGT]

Newbie to the Forums here....Voted for MIL's! Was an Artillery Sgt and did 22 years in the Army. Started n M110A2 8 inch Howitzers and went to MLRS and Palladins. Mil's is all I know LOL!

 

[wendlz]

I voted for mil. One rifle has mil and other one has moa.

 

[joseph floerke]

I like moa. But if you know how to use them both same accurate.

 

[sscoyote]

For me it's the reward of a longer calculated successful shot, no matter what subtension unit i'm using. This last year i had 2 that stand out in my memory. One was winning the field course of this long-range handgun shoot [www.moaguns.com] using an NP-R1 reticle on a Savage Super Striker 22-250/80 A-Max combo by running clicks for vertical and reticle for windage.

The other was a successful calcd. shot at 375 yds. on a nice coyote my buddy made with my 6AI 700/4-12x Burris Mini with Ballistic Plex reticle calcd. at 1.3 stadia units. It was a bang-flop with about a 1/2 baseball sized exit wound. That dog was field-skinned, fleshed, washed, sewn up and stretched, and is now ready for tanning and will end up on my buddies father's wall.

Nothing quite like understanding the adaptability of the mil-ranging formula to FFP and SFP reticles for the long-range shot no matter what subtension unit you or your buddies are using at any particular time.

 

[deathflu]

I prefer MOA.

I found a really cool iPhone app called MOA Calc recently that helps calculate the size of your groupings in MOA. I find it very handy when I'm comparing the accuracy of hand loads.

http://whitehat.co/moa.calculator.html

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/moa-calc/id590399471

 

[ShootnMathews]

I use both systems but I voted for mil because that's what I have on my long range guns at the moment, but only because I got a great deal on them. I actually prefer MOA. I do like the scopes I'm using now because they are Mil/Mil which makes it extremely fast to make a correction and a second shot if you happen to miss. Also makes sighting in super fast. Sighted both guns in in five shots. 3 to get in the X and 2 to fine tune. Not as fine of adjustment at long distances though. gun)

 

[turbines]

I have been using this booklet to get the hang of mildot. The book comes with the analog calculator (like a slide rule.
His website is: www.mildot.com. The book is called Mildot Master

 

[FDR]

I'm new to this site and don't use either but am waiting for my first custom to be built and would like any advice on which is easier to learn/use?

 

[Damascus]

I'm new to this site and don't use either but am waiting for my first custom to be built and would like any advice on which is easier to learn/use?

It really doesn't make a difference which you choose. Mil stands for "milliradian", or 1/1000th of a radian. A circle is 2000 π.
One Mil is one meter at 1000 yards, or 3.6" at 100 yards.

MOA, or Minute of Angle (minute of arc is the proper term, but angle is used in the firearms family), is sort of like a clock.... there are "minutes" around a circle.. each "minute" is a different angle, one MOA is slightly over 1" at 100 yards, 1.047" to be exact. A degree is 1/360 of a circle, an MOA is 1/60 of a degree.

Both require a little research and practice to learn and master, but I personally don't think one is any better than the other. I prefer the MOA system, because it's a little bit simpler for me to calculate in my head on the fly than mils. Some people are the opposite. Just make sure your drop card is in the proper format to your dials, and you'll be fine (if your scope is 1/10 mil per click, make sure your drop card shows "x" mils @ yyy yards, or if it's .25 MOA per click, be sure its formatted to show "x" MOA @ yyy yards). Even faster is to match the reticle to the turrets, like MIL turrets w/ MIL reticle, or MOA turrets w/ MOA reticle... For some reason unknown to me, most scopes will come with a MIL reticle and have MOA turret adjustments... Still not a problem, just makes the process need a little more thought required. Most of my scopes are MIL/MOA, but I have MIL/MIL and a MOA/MOA as well. I prefer Nightforce's MOA system, and recommend that. I've heard great things about Vortex's MOA system as well, but haven't used it.

 

[gmengers]

I used to be set on MOA but I just bought a MIL scope. we shall see how it goes.

 

[Craig1972]

Please forgive me for my beginner question. To answer your question first I would love to just use MOA, but I'm a little confused because I think I use both. For example my scope's reticle is mil dots and i sometimes will use them to range if I don't have my laser. But my dials are 1/4 clicl MOA dials. So I use minutes to get on target, but with a reticle that has MIL dots which I'll some times use to range. Should I be picking a side or is what I'm doing ok? occasionally I'll have to convert one MIL on my reticle to 3.5 minutes, but that just makes me wonder why I have a mil dot reticle in the first place. Thank you and again sorry for the beginner question.

 

[orkan]

It is best when your reticle matches your turrets. That way you don't have to run a conversion.

For instance, with your current setup, you need to read the reticle in mils, and then multiply that reading by 3.5 in order to get your correction in MOA.

The actual conversions are:
1mil = 3.438 moa
1mil = 3.6" at 100yds
1moa = 1.047" at 100yds

However, moa turrets aren't broken up into 10ths, so for ease of use when calling corrections for MOA while using mils, you simply multiply by 3.5.

So if you read a correction with your mil reticle of 1.5 mils:
1.5x3.5= 5.25 MOA (21 clicks with 1/4moa turrets)

It gets a little more tricky when dealing with odd numbers:
1.7x3.5= 5.95 MOA

In the above example, you'd simply round that up to 6 minutes. In any event, it becomes increasingly difficult to do in your head as the numbers go up. This is why it is important to have the reticle match the turrets. Mil reticles are easily broken into 1/10 mil increments, which is what most turret clicks are set to. MOA reticles are easily broken down into 1/4 MOA, which is what most moa turret clicks are set to. So if the reticle matches the turret, you read the correction in the turret, and dial it precisely without having to make any conversion.

Which system you use, whether MOA or MIL, is of little importance. It is simply user preference based on how easily you work with those numbers. I prefer mils due to the smaller numbers, that work better in my brain. 10.7 mils to a thousand yards vs. 36 & 3/4 MOA.

I have a few articles on the subject that you might be interested in:
Primal Rights • Primal Rights -- Rifle Sighting Systems - Part 1: MOA & IPHY
Primal Rights • Primal Rights -- Rifle Sighting Systems - Part 2: Angular Mil
Primal Rights • Primal Rights -- Rifle Sighting Systems - Part 3: SFP vs FFP

If you ever have any questions, feel free to contact me. I'll help in any way I can.