What constitutes “inherently accurate “?

[bigngreen]

Same here, because accuracy has more to do with everything else, other than cartridge design.

How do you know, how much testing ha e you done, how many tweaks have you made to one reamer to test what does happen??

 

[Orange Dust]

Now we are getting serious again. Big and green, asking to learn, when it gets to this point, is the main goal to get it to shoot a range of bullets well, or are you just tweaking to get the most out of a particular bullet.

 

[Orange Dust]

The reason i am asking is i usually show up at the gunsmith with a bag of parts and a box of bullets and say do your best. They figure out all the details and a good guy is majic.

 

[bigngreen]

Now we are getting serious again. Big and green, asking to learn, when it gets to this point, is the main goal to get it to shoot a range of bullets well, or are you just tweaking to get the most out of a particular bullet.

Personally I want to set up on the best bullet possible for both accuracy, bc and function, not in that order necessarily, typically things will shoot a variety but I generally built around a bullet, then chambering then tweaks to the chambering to bring it all together down to the dies

 

[MudRunner2005]

How do you know, how much testing ha e you done, how many tweaks have you made to one reamer to test what does happen??

Why make small tweaks when you can redesign the whole d@mn thing into something better, that has more capacity, less wall taper, more shoulder angle, etc... Those new features don't make it "inherently accurate", it makes it efficient. And in some cases less finicky.

When you compare only 1 factor versus many others, saying only 1 factor affects it the most, is like saying "If I just upgrade the size of my fuel lines in my drag car, it will shave an extra 1/2 second off in the 1/4 mile..." Lots of other factors play into it together to make accuracy happen. Just like drag racing.

That's like saying it's impossible for a .45-70 to be accurate because of its design... When there are plenty of accurate .45-70's out there.

Efficiency has to do with cartridge design. Accuracy has many factors in-play to repeat the sequence creating "accuracy", including the shooter, barrel, action tolerances, reloading discipline, bullets, powder stability, etc...

 

[FEENIX]

The issue with these questions is there are only a select few who will have the ability and the desire to question and test, the only platform that allows testing is one that has measurements on paper as a standard and I think range has to be involved to get the resolution needed.
There is without a doubt something to case design, there to much evidence from people who will try anything to shoot small. If a belted 6 Dasher shot smaller by .001 guys would be running it, if neck sizing shot smaller they be doing it, if flutes made them shoot smaller you'd never see a straight barrel. Will they see stuff that is relevant to long range hunting, sure, much of it is applicable but there is stuff that is literally the last thousandths of gain and just not practical for us BUT that does not make it irrelevant or not true.
There's a lot that goes into accuracy BUT if you let it get into your head to the point you over look the simple basics you'll suck!

You are spot on!

 

[bigngreen]

How can you know the effects of your complete redesign if you don't know the effects of each part. This is not about total package its about understanding each part that goes into easy and maximum accuracy and consistency.
If your just a big picture guy that's fine, there are a lot of people who want to break it down and understand.
You can look at it this way, the more small things, that some think don't make a difference, we understand and control the better the whole design works. There are guys that are dropping below an inch at 1000 yards for a 5 shot group during practice, it's not uncommon to see two inches at matches, they are not doing this by just grabbing a design and shooting it, they are making small incremental changes to make each shot nearly identical.

 

[FEENIX]

I am not familiar with this guy or his work but I ran into this thread from another site on the same topic, maybe somebody here does ...

 

[Orange Dust]

Personally I want to set up on the best bullet possible for both accuracy, bc and function, not in that order necessarily, typically things will shoot a variety but I generally built around a bullet, then chambering then tweaks to the chambering to bring it all together down to the dies

Thanks, i thought thats what you would say.

 

[theosmithjr]

Some cartridges are just easier to find an accurate load for than others, even in identical rifles. Those are the cartridges I think of as inherently accurate. Some that come to mind are the 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5Creedmoor, and .308. Not to say you can't make other cartridges shoot as well, but for me it takes more rounds fired in load development to find a load that shoots as well.

There will be plenty of folks that say there's no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge. If that were so, you'd see something besides the 6 PPC winning benchrest, but you don't. It wins because it is easier to find a winning load for than any other cartridge currently available. Folks will come up with a myriad of reasons of why that may be so but the simple fact is the BR guys could use any cartridge they choose. They all use the PPC because it increases the odds of winning. The PPC is inherently accurate and there are other cartridges that are as well.

John

I agree 1000%! I own many 6mm's in just about every case invented. I own 2 6PPC's that everytime I lick the Jewell cut 1 hole at 100 and 200 yards, and miniature clover leads at 300 yards. I remove groundhogs heads to 600 yards with either. For larger, further out game, I reach for my 6-284, or 6.5-284. The 6 & 6.5 mm's are the sweetest bullets made. They just keep on getting sweeter too. I LOVE EM!

 

[William Bonnie]

Me too, including Hipoint.

Actually Hi Point is a tough ugly app. Like the ak47. It will go bang. I dont own on, but if I was in the swamp every day, I would keep on in the boat.

 

[William Bonnie]

I'll muddy it up even more by stating there are "Inherently Accurate"
rifles, not nesc.cartridges. True gems that shoot everything well, and some loads exceptionally well. And muddy even further by stating "Inherently Accurate" has no meaning other than to the Individual evaluating it. One guy may get his deer every year with his trusty '06 Rem 742 and say it is one very accurate cartridge, and recommend it to everyone he knows even though it may not shoot 2wo MOA on its best day. A 1000yd benchrest guy may have a 1/2 min rifle, and get rid of it. To me, a half minute rifle @1000, using hunting bullets is very accurate, better is super cool. To each his own guys.

I traded a bolt action .308 for a 06 742 with the pretty wood upgrades. It would not hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200, boy was I upset...
So inherently junk applied.

 

[FEENIX]

Actually Hi Point is a tough ugly app. Like the ak47. It will go bang. I dont own on, but if I was in the swamp every day, I would keep on in the boat.

That's what's great about America, we still have the freedom of choice.

 

[Frog4aday]

I traded a bolt action .308 for a '06 742 with the pretty wood upgrades. It would not hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200, boy was I upset...So inherently junk applied.

Was this a USED Remington 742? Just curious. Since they can't be cleaned with a 'solid' rod from the chamber end, they get cleaned (by most people) from the muzzle end and - invariably - the crown gets all oblong shaped in no time. May 'look' fine, but pretty much a guarantee it'll need to be recut if you are getting a used one from somewhere/someone. My buddy in Oklahoma got one that shot as poorly as you described and that was the issue. Lopped off an 1/8" of barrel, re-crowned, and Bob's You're Uncle!, it was shooting great again.