Was the 6.5 cm really a necessity?

[Cold Trigger Finger]

One thing I did learn developing loads for the 260 Rem in a factory stainless Remington 700 rifle.
Because of the case taper , neck and throat design. I was getting pressure signs much sooner than I did With my Ruger M77 6.5 Creedmoor.
I did get very good ammo , not over pressured, and quite accurate for a factory spotter weight barrel. Iirc around 5/8s moa.
It just took extra effort . My Ruger is consistently a bit more accurate.
However I think that may be the trigger in that M700.

 

[J E Custom]

One thing I did learn developing loads for the 260 Rem in a factory stainless Remington 700 rifle.
Because of the case taper , neck and throat design. I was getting pressure signs much sooner than I did With my Ruger M77 6.5 Creedmoor.
I did get very good ammo , not over pressured, and quite accurate for a factory spotter weight barrel. Iirc around 5/8s moa.
It just took extra effort . My Ruger is consistently a bit more accurate.
However I think that may be the trigger in that M700.

It is also a function of the shoulder. The 30o angle That the Creedmoor
uses is very popular with wildcatters because of the efficiency of the shoulder angle. (Standard shoulder angles are + or- 20o )And if used in a staggered magazine, it still feeds well. (It is a compromise of the 40o shoulder that seems to be the optimum shoulder angle, but works best when a center feed mag box is used.

This is the reason that the AI version is so popular in wildcats because of the 40o shoulder. It would be interesting to AI the Creedmoor and see what effects it would have on this cartridge.

I know from personal experience that the 260 AI can push a 140 grain bullet over 3000 ft/sec with ease and stay well below the SAMME recommended pressures.

J E CUSTOM

 

[AFraser]

As a European shooter, it astonishes me to hear such criticism of a cartridge that has clearly been a fantastically successful new product development by the US firearms industry.

Despite being a long-time user of Remington rifles, the 260 introduction looked to me like a lazy, half-baked effort that lacked both ambition and imagination. Ignoring the success of both the 6.5x55 and 6.5-284 as long range target/hunting rounds, using long, high BC bullets, Remington's vision for the 260 seemed to be little more than a 'mild mannered' deer cartridge, half way between the 250 and 270 calibres, with bullet weights to match.

Consequently, they took the 308 case, changed nothing and gave the barrel a twist rate that limited it to mid-weight bullets. The design was more-of-the-same and it delivered more-of-the-same.

By contrast, Hornady spotted the massive paradigm shift that occurred in rifle shooting after the two Gulf Wars – from power towards long-range accuracy. They realised that excessive recoil limits consistent accuracy, and had already collaborated in significant developments to optimise cartridge efficiency (via the 30TC and Ruger Compact Magnum projects). By working with target shooters, they had already developed long, high-BC bullets in their A-Max range, and understood the need for fast twist rates to stabilise them.

Above all, they were willing to change every aspect of the traditional short action case; length, taper, shoulder – even reducing the powder capacity, in the single-minded pursuit of their goal – a supremely accurate, long-range, dual-purpose cartridge.

In other words, they had a clear vision, made bold choices based on solid Research & Development, and produced a truly distinctive product. Their one really smart bit of marketing, was to offer first class ammunition at very competitive prices, so that everyone who tried the new cartridge had a great experience. As a result, huge numbers of US firearms users are shooting more accurately and demanding more of their equipment, which has unlocked an explosion of innovation in the rifle industry to create economical, accurate rifles.

How can anyone criticise what Hornady have brought to the US firearms market with the Creedmoor?

 

[lee31]

I love niche cartridges and I love the Creedmoor. Nothing bucks the wind and slays sheep/goats like a Creedmoor.

I'm assuming you're joking? Because a 6.5x284 will walk all over a Creedmoor. A 264 win mag will do it even more

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Lee31; the thing is tho.
Lots of us have proven , if not to everyone, then at least to ourselves. That we don't need scorching velocities to kill quickly .
Dead is dead. Quickly dead is just that. Bang flop. And the medium velocity 6.5s have been doing that for over 100 years.
Of course faster flies flatter and doesn't drift as much in the breeze.
Not saying there is anything wrong with the 6.5/284, 6.5 Rem mag, 264 Winchester or other similar or faster carts. If a guy is willing to give up barrel life.
But all in all , its hard to beat these mid velocity 6.5 rounds.

 

[lee31]

Lee31; the thing is tho.
Lots of us have proven , if not to everyone, then at least to ourselves. That we don't need scorching velocities to kill quickly .
Dead is dead. Quickly dead is just that. Bang flop. And the medium velocity 6.5s have been doing that for over 100 years.
Of course faster flies flatter and doesn't drift as much in the breeze.
Not saying there is anything wrong with the 6.5/284, 6.5 Rem mag, 264 Winchester or other similar or faster carts. If a guy is willing to give up barrel life.
But all in all , its hard to beat these mid velocity 6.5 rounds.

Yep my thing is you guys act like the 6.5 Creedmoor it's the best thing since sliced bread. But as you just stated and I own one the 6.5x55 has been doing everything the Creedmoor has been doing and then some for over 120 years. And if you are really pushing over 3000 with a 147 out of your Creedmoor you are over pressure. I own a Creedmoor it's alright but it ain't magical cartridge

 

[lee31]

I would also add if your worried about barrel life. Driving a bullet out a Creedmoor at those speeds isn't gonna be any easier on barrels than any of those bigger cartridges.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

From my 18.6" barrel. 140 gr class bullets are going just under 2600 and 130s are going 2775 fps.
The one thing the 6.5 Swede wasn't doing was being made in a stainless Ruger M77.
Off the shelf factory rifle.
But , ballistically your correct.
Incidentally. For all the hyper expansion guys.
A guy I know here shot a bou with his 6.5 Swede with a 110 gr Barnes Banded Solid. Bullet was going a bit over 2850 fps mv shot was at Around 130 paces . quartering away. Bullet entered at the back of the ribs. Poked a hole thru the heart and exited in front of the off side shoulder. Bou walked 3 more steps and fell down dead. Didn't loose as much as a cheese burgers worth of meat.

 

[Capt RB]

Yep my thing is you guys act like the 6.5 Creedmoor it's the best thing since sliced bread. But as you just stated and I own one the 6.5x55 has been doing everything the Creedmoor has been doing and then some for over 120 years. And if you are really pushing over 3000 with a 147 out of your Creedmoor you are over pressure. I own a Creedmoor it's alright but it ain't magical cartridge

Load RL26 in your swede. You will see velocities you never dreamed of with nice round primers. The thing with your statement is if the Swede or the 260 or even the the 47 were doing it = no creedmoor How is your swede running 140's through a 2.850 dbm? Look at the Bullet next to that loaded case. How much powder space is eaten up? 260 How stable is that brass? Is the baring surface taken up powder space with the high BC bullets? The 47 How's the off the shelf availability? How many factories carry that caliber? How many configurations does it come in?
How many new shooters are the above bringing into our sport vs the creed?? The only way our sport grows is through new blood. That means more money is spent. That means more tax is paid.

 

[lee31]

How stable is Lapua 260 or 6.5x55 brass? Are you serious? It's as stable as anything made. Another thing who gives a crap if about short magazine. I don't care for short actions as there is no advantage. Unless you care about a 1/2-3/4 inch and about 3 ounces. Just admit it the Creedmoor is nnot better than the 120 year old Swede.

 

[lee31]

Load RL26 in your swede. You will see velocities you never dreamed of with nice round primers. The thing with your statement is if the Swede or the 260 or even the the 47 were doing it = no creedmoor How is your swede running 140's through a 2.850 dbm? Look at the Bullet next to that loaded case. How much powder space is eaten up? 260 How stable is that brass? Is the baring surface taken up powder space with the high BC bullets? The 47 How's the off the shelf availability? How many factories carry that caliber? How many configurations does it come in?
How many new shooters are the above bringing into our sport vs the creed?? The only way our sport grows is through new blood. That means more money is spent. That means more tax is paid.

Fact is if your getting over 3000 fps with a 147 you over pressure. Your barrel and brass life will suffer. That case was not designed to drive bullets that big that fast.

 

[Capt RB]

How stable is Lapua 260 or 6.5x55 brass? Are you serious? It's as stable as anything made. Another thing who gives a crap if about short magazine. I don't care for short actions as there is no advantage. Unless you care about a 1/2-3/4 inch and about 3 ounces. Just admit it the Creedmoor is nnot better than the 120 year old Swede.

You obviously don't compete in any tactical events. The Swede case has so much taper it is limited to 55k psi and the length puts it in a long action to run the High BC bullets effectively. Then in a competitive event your moving your head to clear the bolt in some positions. So it doesn't do very well at that
+1 creed
The 260 needs to be an ai The 20 degree shoulder is more prone to torch the throat faster due to shape. Brass stabilization. Your going to start trimming far sooner at the same pressure as the creed when using same head stamp.
Your also not going to find much for components in small town type stores.
I live in Mass not exactly a shooter's nirvana by any means. I can go into any dealer and get a box of creedmoor ammo that will shoot well enough for store bought. The original design was throated correctly and twisted to make the most out of it.
I ran a ladder and hit 3013fps I don't load to that speed I'm loading to 2920 and my case head expansion is less than the factory 140grn American eagle which is Federal brass.
Why would you be using that new fangled interweb thingy your swede is everything you want I don't get it. You don't need to learn anything else about cartridges for smaller than Grizzly bears
I learned long ago my needs and wants do not make the world go round.
God gave me 2 eyes and 2 ears but only one mouth. Is because listening and watching is harder or more important?

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

How stable is Lapua 260 or 6.5x55 brass? Are you serious? It's as stable as anything made. Another thing who gives a crap if about short magazine. I don't care for short actions as there is no advantage. Unless you care about a 1/2-3/4 inch and about 3 ounces. Just admit it the Creedmoor is nnot better than the 120 year old Swede.

Why do people always compare it to the Swede? The Swede is not a true SA cartridge. I wanna see a Swede push 140s at 3k in a SA. Fact is, the creed when loaded right isn't far behind the 6.5x284 and it uses roughly 10 grains less powder to do it. If you have a 26in barrel, 2900+ is not hard to achieve.

 

[coop2564]

Will never happen in reality...Not in this dimension. Yall can keep dreaming.

Maybe in recent sales since the 6.5 boom, but it doesn't have a 65+ years history, like the .308 Win.

At this moment in time 6.5 creedmore is crushing everything in sales at big box stores by a wide margin. Question is how long will that last? I think it will continue simply because its so accurate and easy on recoil, has bullets that will take take anything hovened footed in North America.