This is whats wrong with hunting today

[FireFlyFishing]

The military doesn't always choose a small arms weapon for its lethality (Geneva Convention). You logistically tie up more support personnel with a wounded soldier than a dead soldier. Also one of the reasons the US military first chose the 5.56 over the then issued 7.62 nato because a soldier could carry much more ammo.

No argument here as a general blanket statement.

So in the terms of hunting compared to military use of small arms it's not a comparison.

I disagree here though. Is what the US military does and has success with a direct correlation to hunting, absolutely not. There’s plenty to learn with the what the DOD messes with however. And…I’m not advocating the DOD is always right or has all the answers. They do have the opportunity to test their equipment a lot though. I might as well learn something from the uses of my tax dollars at work.

Here’s a small caliber example. Certain sectors of the US military use 70 grain Barnes TSXs and/or 77 grain SMKs in their 556 rifles. These units aren’t looking to wound folks and tie up logistics of their foe. One of the new fads in hunting is using a 556/223 with TMKs. Apparently, with success. Just changing the projectile changes the game with that particular cartridge.

 

[xsn10s]

No argument here as a general blanket statement.

I disagree here though. Is what the US military does and has success with a direct correlation to hunting, absolutely not. There’s plenty to learn with the what the DOD messes with however. And…I’m not advocating the DOD is always right or has all the answers. They do have the opportunity to test their equipment a lot though. I might as well learn something from the uses of my tax dollars at work.

Here’s a small caliber example. Certain sectors of the US military use 70 grain Barnes TSXs and/or 77 grain SMKs in their 556 rifles. These units aren’t looking to wound folks and tie up logistics of their foe. One of the new fads in hunting is using a 556/223 with TMKs. Apparently, with success. Just changing the projectile changes the game with that particular cartridge.

My comments weren't really directed towards you but I'll respond. IMO what certain sectors of the three letter agencies does gleans from what they learned in terminal performance. What they do in official wars and what they do during the fight against terrorism could be different. Beyond that I follow what Forrest Gumps says.

 

[KsKevin]

He didn't mention drift. That 22 is gonna get pushed around pretty good in the wind. I look at it like this. If I can push a 140 grain bullet in a 7 mag the same velocity with a similar bc it’s a no brainer. Or a 160 a little slower but with a higher bc. Less drift and more energy down range.

That video has so many things wrong with it but as to your point on drift…. Just realize THE ONLY THINGS affecting wind drift are BC and starting MV. Bullet weight and diameter alone won’t change drift (ie.. a 0.224 80g bullet leaving at 3000fps will have the same wind drift as a 7mm 160g at 3000fps IF they have the same BC).

 

[Ol' Red]

After reading a lot of comments, I finally watched the video. It's challenge for me to watch a guy with a flat brim hat talk for that long, but I did it. It inspired me to sit in a box with the top shut to cure my claustrophobia. Everyone have a good 4th of July and don't shoot elephants with a .22.

 

[xsn10s]

After reading a lot of comments, I finally watched the video. It's challenge for me to watch a guy with a flat brim hat talk for that long, but I did it. It inspired me to sit in a box with the top shut to cure my claustrophobia. Everyone have a good 4th of July and don't shoot elephants with a .22.

Happy 4th of July brother!

 

[cajun]

That video has so many things wrong with it but as to your point on drift…. Just realize THE ONLY THINGS affecting wind drift are BC and starting MV. Bullet weight and diameter alone won’t change drift (ie.. a 0.224 80g bullet leaving at 3000fps will have the same wind drift as a 7mm 160g at 3000fps IF they have the same BC).

Yes but that’s the point the 22’s dont have the same bc as a 7mm. My comments about the weight are related to hunting. If you gave me the choice of shooting an 80 gr bullet at 3000 or a 160 at 3000 I’m going to pick the 160. Even if they had the same bc. But the kicker is they wont.

 

[southpa]

Omg. Where to begin…loads of crap and twisting of info to position his message. Never heard of this guy but I’d trust him about as far as I can throw him.

Ahh the twsiting of info to position the message! I agree wholeheartedly! What's more interesting is that everyone agrees with your statement about the guy in the video but some are guilty of the same thing. Just read this thread hahah. I feel we all could be guilty of this to many degrees. But when people are set on pushing their experience as law they are no better than the guy in the video IMO.

 

[Beluebow]

Yes but that’s the point the 22’s dont have the same bc as a 7mm. My comments about the weight are related to hunting. If you gave me the choice of shooting an 80 gr bullet at 3000 or a 160 at 3000 I’m going to pick the 160. Even if they had the same bc. But the kicker is they wont.

Actually some of the heavier for caliber 22 bullet offerings have the same or higher BC than some of the 7MM in the 150-160ish weight range. Is that an apples to apples comparison....probably not. Does it matter....not to me. I know what my 22's and 6mm's are capable of and my limitations.

 

[waspocrew]

I didn’t watch the video - the guy is a tool and a poacher. Yet somehow he became sponsored by a major optic company recently. That’s what wrong with hunting and the internet today. Do whatever you need to secure as many likes, views, and subscribers because that turns into income.

I enjoy my 22 Creed and have (and will continue) to kill game with it. However, I don’t regard it as the “ultimate hunting cartridge” or whatever the clickbait title of the video was.

 

[cajun]

Actually some of the heavier for caliber 22 bullet offerings have the same or higher BC than some of the 7MM in the 150-160ish weight range. Is that an apples to apples comparison....probably not. Does it matter....not to me. I know what my 22's and 6mm's are capable of and my limitations.

The 88 eld and 108 have a g7 of .27. The 180 7mm is .391

 

[Beluebow]

The 88 eld and 108 have a g7 of .27. The 180 7mm is .391

I'm not here to argue, but you did use a 160gr bullet for your initial example.

 

[MTbackwoods]

Here ya go:

Mk 12 Special Purpose Rifle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I like the part of this wiki article that says:
In mid-2011, SOCOM began removing the Mk 12 SPR from their inventory and replacing it with the marksman version of the SCAR Mk 17, with the Mk 12 being completely replaced by 2017.[12]
Meaning they went back to a 7.62X51 chambering. So I guess they didn’t pick another variation of the 556 or the 22 CM for that matter.

Do you care to comment on the 277 Fury? Not really a lighter cartridge as far as recoil goes and yet it’s been adopted.

Negative. My freezers are full every year with game I hunt with magnums. Have I missed an animal before? Sure. It was from bad wind calls or poorly judged distance on quick shots. It had nothing to do with recoil. In fact, recoil isn’t a consideration or registered when I take a shot on an animal.

I agree with @southpa. Hiding behind what’s better for a child to shoot doesn’t mean me and every other hunter must use small calibers when hunting big game…because it’s in vogue right now. New cartridges have been developed and folks think we lived in the dark ages and weren’t able to kill anything prior to the 6.5 CM.

Let me ask you this. I’ve seen a thread on this forum started by you trying to sell a product you invented. On said thread, you’re shooting a 300 WM. I’m confused. Should I buy a smaller caliber rifle rather than purchase your muzzle device for a larger caliber rifle?

At what point did I say no one can or should shoot big magnums? I’m not hiding behind anything. You guys have gotten so sensitive and apparently your feelings are hurt to the point you aren’t actually reading what I write. Is the 22 creed the ultimate and best cartridge in the world? Yes, for some people. Are some people capable of shooting large magnums to a high degree of accuracy? Yes. However, 99.99999% of shooters would and do benefit from less recoil. With modern bullets we can play a different game and let the BC do more of the work rather than the powder column.

As to the MK12, thankfully our leadership finally realized that shooting people with a 22 and FMJ didn’t tend to give great results. Especially in a battle space such as Afghanistan where the engagements could be stretched way, way out. And be honest, what do you think the sentiment would be if that weapon system was launching 80+ grain ELDM at 3,200+ fps like the 22 creed?

I’m neither right nor wrong. You are neither right nor wrong. And Erik at MuleyFreak is neither right nor wrong. The biggest problem is that a vast majority of hunters these days want to get into long range. So they go buy a 5 pound 300 PRC or a 7 pound 338 Lapua and don’t shoot it enough to be truly effective with it. I shoot hundreds of rounds, all year long, through all of my hunting rifles. They sight theirs in (usually ineffectively) and don’t touch their rifle again before season because they are afraid of it. If they had a Creedmoor of any flavor, 6.5 PRC, 7 mag or PRC or whatever it is they can ACTUALLY handle, they would be effective. Instead they want to look cool and just sling lead, blaming everything but themselves. All of the statistically significant data says we all shoot less recoil better than we do more recoil. Muzzle brakes are great but they create a whole new monster to contend with at our muzzle. Hence the product I am developing. And the first iteration wasn’t nearly what I was going for

 

[skipglo]

Yes but that’s the point the 22’s dont have the same bc as a 7mm. My comments about the weight are related to hunting. If you gave me the choice of shooting an 80 gr bullet at 3000 or a 160 at 3000 I’m going to pick the 160. Even if they had the same bc. But the kicker is they wont.

^^^^^^ EVER!

 

[jsmitt6]

I can’t stand this guy, brand or his channel. Too many arrests and charges of trespassing or other related crimes that I don’t have any interest.