The PRC die "problem"

[L.Sherm]

Comments about me being off base and Alex in it for just the money is gonna **** me off and im not about to candy coat anything. Ive tried 3 different dies to solve the clicker issue its clearly a reamer-die issue combo and im positive Alex's fix is 100% the answer not a band-aid that might work
BRENTM you obviously have something against Alex to make your comment hes done alot for the shooting industry and nothing but money out of his pocket to benefit alot of shooters.
Comments like this is why he probably doesn't spend much time on here and has migrated to LRO

 

[BrentM]

Comments about me being off base and Alex in it for just the money is gonna **** me off and im not about to candy coat anything. Ive tried 3 different dies to solve the clicker issue its clearly a reamer-die issue combo and im positive Alex's fix is 100% the answer not a band-aid that might work
BRENTM you obviously have something against Alex to make your comment hes done alot for the shooting industry and nothing but money out of his pocket to benefit alot of shooters.
Comments like this is why he probably doesn't spend much time on here and has migrated to LRO

You are taking way too much liberty with it all and part of what I mention about emotions. Never once did I say he was all about the money. I have no issue with Alex at all. Again, assumptions on your part and off base. I simply say that those guys have skin in the game and said the same about whidden selling dies. I didn't limit it to Alex. Is it true, I don't know, that's why I say I assume but don't know. If he simply created a solution with no gain, that pretty amazing and maybe he did. I don't know and it's not really of concern in the end. I have his designed reamer, I understand the potential. You really think I'd buy it and not believe in it? Geesh man, I've said it since the beginning there seems to be several ways to get to the end result. Never said my way is the only way or better, said it is a way. If you have a whidden custom cut die and have the spec that didn't work, please share it. I only have what 1200 cases cycled through my whidden at this point and have never had a die failure so I don't know when stress becomes a factor in failure. For all I know it could be the next case. I have the reamer to fall back on if things don't work out with the current process.
I'm headed out to shoot and hunt predators. Have a good day.

 

[Jpron]

I'll offer to help settle this whidden die angle, someone send me one to try. I'll document and post results back here. Between my dad and I, we have 3 prc's, all of which have the click. Honestly I'm about done with any prc

 

[JAYgs8163]

And everyone is jumping on the 7PRC bandwagon. Hornady, I truly believe, designed this cartridge to be a Precision Rifle Cartridge using their factory ammo, and when designing did not take any account for hand loaders. I will say, off the shelf rifles shoot their factory ammo better than any rifle I've ever shot. I've got a few friends who don't reload and they just are googoogaga over their PRCs and shooting Hornady Factory ammo.

 

[BrentM]

And everyone is jumping on the 7PRC bandwagon. Hornady, I truly believe, designed this cartridge to be a Precision Rifle Cartridge using their factory ammo, and when designing did not take any account for hand loaders. I will say, off the shelf rifles shoot their factory ammo better than any rifle I've ever shot. I've got a few friends who don't reload and they just are googoogaga over their PRCs and shooting Hornady Factory ammo.

I still don't think hornady brass has an issue. Let's just say I've not had an issue in 10 reloads. So if a guy runs hornady brass or brass with similar characteristics it may not be an issue.

 

[BrentM]

I'll offer to help settle this whidden die angle, someone send me one to try. I'll document and post results back here. Between my dad and I, we have 3 prc's, all of which have the click. Honestly I'm about done with any prc

What brass are you running?

 

[Jpron]

What brass are you running?

Adg, hornady, nosler

 

[BrentM]

Adg, hornady, nosler

Bummer. If you want to send me some of your brass I'll size it for you and see if it works. It sounds like you might have a tight chamber and need to open it up with the aw2.

 

[General RE LEE]

I wish Hornady brass would become available for reloaders.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Yeah both of those guys are making money and both have their marketing plan. I don't see the logic necessarily in the over work. Both reduce the brass size the same amount in the end. You either expand to 532 or 533 and work the brass back .002. I'm not buying off on the claim it overworks yet. I have more concern you are blowing the base out more than the thicker web creating a stretch, but I have no facts to be overly concerned. Time is the telling tale of all this. I have 9 reloads on the adg using whidden, I have 2 reloads on lapau using whidden. I have 10 reloads on hornady using a standard Die. Not enough data or time for me to be convinced which is better. If I had known a reamer was going to be designed I would have just went the reamer route. As things worked out, I have both now. Not many people, if any, have both and barrels I can play with. However, I know what I'm currently doing works as it should and I don't make any money off the process. Heck before all this I modified a 300 prc die and cut .25" off the bottom to get the same result. I really don't care what others decided to do with their money and time, I'm just giving examples of options of things that clearly work.

I have not made a penny off of any of this. In fact I will never make another reamer public, because of the number of calls I get on this subject from people who are not customers. Im a one man shop and that down time really ads up. So in reality, this has cost me money if you really want to know.
And no, both ways do not reduce the base the same.
ADG and Lapua brass in this case head needs a die that is at least .005 smaller at the base than the chamber. The old .003 number doesnt work. The Bullet central micron is the smallest die on the market. It wont fix the problem because theres only .003 between a new case and the chamber. No matter how small you make a die, it wont bring down the solid web. If that die or any die fixes your problem for the long run, your running low pressures or your chamber is already oversized. Just because the chamber was cut with the saami reamer does not mean it actually measures .533 at the .2". Even with the .005 needed, as this brass work hardens and pressures run high enough we still fight ADG. Dies start cracking.

 

[tim_w]

I have not made a penny off of any of this. In fact I will never make another reamer public, because of the number of calls I get on this subject from people who are not customers. Im a one man shop and that down time really ads up. So in reality, this has cost me money if you really want to know.
And no, both ways do not reduce the base the same.
ADG and Lapua brass in this case head needs a die that is at least .005 smaller at the base than the chamber. The old .003 number doesnt work. The Bullet central micron is the smallest die on the market. It wont fix the problem because theres only .003 between a new case and the chamber. No matter how small you make a die, it wont bring down the solid web. If that die or any die fixes your problem for the long run, your running low pressures or your chamber is already oversized. Just because the chamber was cut with the saami reamer does not mean it actually measures .533 at the .2". Even with the .005 needed, as this brass work hardens and pressures run high enough we still fight ADG. Dies start cracking.

No good deed seems to go unpunished these days. Good will and charity branded as self serving profiteering. Entitlement of others to such a extent as to expect and go so far as to demand service at no cost and in fact on the others dime. All topped with a dose of unrepentant ignorance.

With that said, there are those that are very appreciative of your natural desire to be helpful and increase the collective knowledge and do understand and respect the cost you can/do incure by doing so.

 

[BrentM]

I have not made a penny off of any of this.

Amazing. Would think all the hard work that went into something like this would be intellectual property at least.

No matter how small you make a die, it wont bring down the solid web.

This is new to me. I didn't know the solid web was part of the issue. The entire discussion has been about the .200 line and expansion just beyond or right at the solid web interchange. I have not seen that area expand in my cases but sounds like I need to pay attention to it. As far as my chambers, 2 proofs, 1 xcaliber, and 1 krieger. I didn't cut any of these personally. All running the same process and no issues so far. With all the reloads on adg you'd think there'd be an issue by now but as I stated before maybe more time will reveal issues. I'm not even remotely concerned about my charge weights. I get excellent speeds for the cartridge.

Since I have a spare proof sitting on the shelf I am going to use the reamer and open it up. That way if and when I see anything go south with my process I have a back up.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The .2 line is not important, its just a place on the print we spec out. Theses cases expand above that point. But when your case is .530 at the solid web, (in this case the .2 line is solid brass) and you make your die much smaller than .530 in that area your not going to bring the case down. Your going to crack the die. Even if it does not crack the solid web will resist sizing the brass just above it. If the solid web was .528 we could make a die that small or a hair under and we would not have to open up the chamber.

So far as proprietary info goes, the first guy to buy one would post the print and everyone would just spec their own. Thats how it goes.

 

[BrentM]

The .2 line is not important, its just a place on the print we spec out. Theses cases expand above that point. But when your case is .530 at the solid web, (in this case the .2 line is solid brass) and you make your die much smaller than .530 in that area your not going to bring the case down. Your going to crack the die. Even if it does not crack the solid web will resist sizing the brass just above it. If the solid web was .528 we could make a die that small or a hair under and we would not have to open up the chamber.

So far as proprietary info goes, the first guy to buy one would post the print and everyone would just spec their own. Thats how it goes.

Gotcha. I think the standard RCBS and Redding dies are .5285, I'll have to measure again. Been awhile. I use the standard dies on hornady and the base comes in at .530. If I use the whidden it is .529- .5295 which is what a unfired case measures. So yeah I guess the solid does expand some now that I recall the measurements. My whidden is .5275 when looking at the spec I sent to John. Using imperial wax, a coax press, the little stubby short handle vs the standard long, it takes very little effort to size lapau to .530. I only have 2x reloads on the lapau tho. The adg is set aside for the other barrel as to not mix brass much. Was using hornady 1 shot wax but it's not as good as imperial. Probably toss it out.