The PRC die "problem"

[DellaDog]

My (limited) understanding is the fix is to have a chamber reamer sized +. 002 at the 0.200 line and ensure the die is properly (not under) sized?

And the easy button to correct an already sized chamber is to polish off .002.

 

[highdrum]

My (limited) understanding is the fix is to have a chamber reamer sized +. 002 at the 0.200 line and ensure the die is properly (not under) sized?

And the easy button to correct an already sized chamber is to polish off .002.

I think Alex's fix is a lil more than just opening up the 200 line, I believe he did that, but then ran a slight oversized taper all the way to probably half way up the case where it rejoined saami dimensions. I had my chamber polished out 2k all the way up to bout 0.300 in the chamber, and now the click is coming from around the 0.4-0.5 area. Granted the clicks coming in at higher velocity than before doing this.

 

[tim_w]

I am getting the same as NWMNBOWHUNTER out of 2 different rifles. 0.531 after first firing.

Vrigin - 0.5290
1x fired- 0.531

Thanks guys.

I had seen Hornady mentioned but sid not see anyone post the virgin brass for ADG.

Alex,

You reamer print is the quickest way to address the issue for owners and smiths to allow current ADG cases. Can be very simple if you have a lathe to lap it out.. This is going to help a lot of people. Nice for you to share it with the community as it is intellectual property and has real monetary value. I hope people understand this.

IMO the long term across the board fix is for the SAAMI Member Companies to tighten up the case min/max toleranc in certain area. There is no need with today's equip to have -0.008 tolerance spread for case diameters in 65k psi average max cartridges that by there own specs state can approach 70k. Even mil small arm munitions do not need a stacked tolerances clearance that exceed 10 thou. At least Weatherby addressed it on his cases cutting it in half @ -0.004. Then the prints can open up the min clearance between max case and min chamber by a few thou more..

Especially when you consider chambers are held to only +0.002 min print on diameter dimensions. If they tightened up case tolerance then the areas like that critical supported unsupported web area could have a 4-5 thou clearance between min chamber max case. Currently if it was done with current tolerance -0.008 we could have a stacked tolerance creating a clearance of 0.014!?!

I think today's max stacked tolerances are crazy large @ 0.011. It seems at least Weatherby addressed this allowing only a +0.001 on the chamber and -0.004 on the case right above the belt. Min chamber/max case clearance doubles most others @ 0.002. Stack tolerances clearance would have a reasonable 7 thou. Figure case manf go reasonable -0.002 and a spec chamber would have 0.004 clearance.

 

[Stevenstl86]

I didn't read all the post but I do know some smiths are chambering with a semi Sammi spec reamer and is .002-.003 bigger around the web area as mentioned. I don't know the full specs of the reamer

 

[Bucky27]

I have my own lathe. I do all of my own gun work and even though I could just pull the barrel back off and lap the chamber, I feel the reamer is the best and most consistent option for this cartridge. Because I will continue to use this cartridge in hunting and competition applications.
So today I ordered from JGS the 6.5 PRC Alex Wheeler reamer.

Thank you Alex for figuring this all out. I appreciate the time and effort you put into the gun world!

Ethan

 

[highdrum]

I got a set of bullet central dies in 300wsm, 300nmi in the mail today. Still waiting for my 6.5 prc. I will say these things size the case a ridiculous amount. I had some 300wsm that were 3-4x HOT firings, and they wouldn't even fit into my loading block anymore the base/web has grown so much. The BC die sized these heavily beaten cases to dang near the same dimension as some once fired low psi cases. I'm SUPER impressed. Alex Wheeler gave them the sizing specs on what to set these dies to so I'm not surprised.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Would anyone be willing to make a die with their reamer if I bought the die blank and sent it to you? Or how does that work with BC dies?

 

[highdrum]

Would anyone be willing to make a die with their reamer if I bought the die blank and sent it to you? Or how does that work with BC dies?

Chamber reamer is great for making a seating die. It will do nothing for a sizing die. You want a seater or sizing die? Sizing dies need a "resize" reamer, which is notably smaller than a chamber reamer.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Chamber reamer is great for making a seating die. It will do nothing for a sizing die. You want a seater or sizing die? Sizing dies need a "resize" reamer, which is notably smaller than a chamber reamer.

Sizer.....yeah, I wasn't thinking clearly obviously lol

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Thanks guys.

I had seen Hornady mentioned but sid not see anyone post the virgin brass for ADG.

Alex,

You reamer print is the quickest way to address the issue for owners and smiths to allow current ADG cases. Can be very simple if you have a lathe to lap it out.. This is going to help a lot of people. Nice for you to share it with the community as it is intellectual property and has real monetary value. I hope people understand this.

IMO the long term across the board fix is for the SAAMI Member Companies to tighten up the case min/max toleranc in certain area. There is no need with today's equip to have -0.008 tolerance spread for case diameters in 65k psi average max cartridges that by there own specs state can approach 70k. Even mil small arm munitions do not need a stacked tolerances clearance that exceed 10 thou. At least Weatherby addressed it on his cases cutting it in half @ -0.004. Then the prints can open up the min clearance between max case and min chamber by a few thou more..

Especially when you consider chambers are held to only +0.002 min print on diameter dimensions. If they tightened up case tolerance then the areas like that critical supported unsupported web area could have a 4-5 thou clearance between min chamber max case. Currently if it was done with current tolerance -0.008 we could have a stacked tolerance creating a clearance of 0.014!?!

I think today's max stacked tolerances are crazy large @ 0.011. It seems at least Weatherby addressed this allowing only a +0.001 on the chamber and -0.004 on the case right above the belt. Min chamber/max case clearance doubles most others @ 0.002. Stack tolerances clearance would have a reasonable 7 thou. Figure case manf go reasonable -0.002 and a spec chamber would have 0.004 clearance.

I appreciate your comments. When a guy buys one of "my" reamers or a die from BC, I do not get a cut of that. Nor do I get paid for the specs. In some cases like my 300 NMI or 338 Lapua imp I have multiple resize reamers over 5 re grinds and test dies that I made that were trashed figuring out the correct specs so my customers would not have issues. So yes a lot of money can be sunk into figuring out specs when your dealing with a new case head. On some cases I don't give out the specs (although those with my specs do not always keep them proprietary). I can not afford to do the work for others in the business.
On standard cases like this, I think it should be public info since so many are having issues.

ADG brass is awesome stuff, it just has to be treated differently than softer brass. It really brings out short comings in dies and designs. Its worth figuring out in the long run though, the brass is that good. I have some of their SAUM brass out there in a couple 300 SAUM imp 1K BR rifles now, so I can now say it is capable of BR level accuracy and it will not wear out. I knew it was good and tough and the accuracy potential is there, but until you run it in an actual BR rifle capable of top accuracy you don't know how good. I would say, it is certainly at Lapua level.

 

[tim_w]

I appreciate your comments. When a guy buys one of "my" reamers or a die from BC, I do not get a cut of that. Nor do I get paid for the specs. In some cases like my 300 NMI or 338 Lapua imp I have multiple resize reamers over 5 re grinds and test dies that I made that were trashed figuring out the correct specs so my customers would not have issues. So yes a lot of money can be sunk into figuring out specs when your dealing with a new case head. On some cases I don't give out the specs (although those with my specs do not always keep them proprietary). I can not afford to do the work for others in the business.
On standard cases like this, I think it should be public info since so many are having issues.

ADG brass is awesome stuff, it just has to be treated differently than softer brass. It really brings out short comings in dies and designs. Its worth figuring out in the long run though, the brass is that good. I have some of their SAUM brass out there in a couple 300 SAUM imp 1K BR rifles now, so I can now say it is capable of BR level accuracy and it will not wear out. I knew it was good and tough and the accuracy potential is there, but until you run it in an actual BR rifle capable of top accuracy you don't know how good. I would say, it is certainly at Lapua level.

Yes I fully agree on the quality and strength of ADG brass. Having run various pressure equip I have a very good idea of the pressure of the loads pushed out of them. Take a rsaum case blow out most of its minimal taper out and the shoulder to 40°and finish with just a knat's *** hair worth of headspace you will see issues from reciever /chamber hoop expansion before actual case itself weakness. That's psi way over 65k.LoL

Thanks again

 

[highdrum]

I appreciate your comments. When a guy buys one of "my" reamers or a die from BC, I do not get a cut of that. Nor do I get paid for the specs. In some cases like my 300 NMI or 338 Lapua imp I have multiple resize reamers over 5 re grinds and test dies that I made that were trashed figuring out the correct specs so my customers would not have issues. So yes a lot of money can be sunk into figuring out specs when your dealing with a new case head. On some cases I don't give out the specs (although those with my specs do not always keep them proprietary). I can not afford to do the work for others in the business.
On standard cases like this, I think it should be public info since so many are having issues.

ADG brass is awesome stuff, it just has to be treated differently than softer brass. It really brings out short comings in dies and designs. Its worth figuring out in the long run though, the brass is that good. I have some of their SAUM brass out there in a couple 300 SAUM imp 1K BR rifles now, so I can now say it is capable of BR level accuracy and it will not wear out. I knew it was good and tough and the accuracy potential is there, but until you run it in an actual BR rifle capable of top accuracy you don't know how good. I would say, it is certainly at Lapua level.

Alex,
I have a reamer similar to your spec on the way to open up my chamber up, also a bullet central die coming. Would using the large chamber with the small die specs in combination cause any possible issues, too much clearance in chamber?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I did not spec their prc die directly. I dont know if they used the numbers I gave them for other magnums or not. I will need to check with them.

 

[samson]

Good Morning. I was just on the phone with Bullet Central and they are having a Team Meeting regarding the problems with the PRC Dies. Luke is working on the solution with the new dimensions. They did say that there is a run that is being nitrided soon but I am not sure if these are the corrected dies.