The PRC die "problem"

[Travis sackwar]

Well I figure I'd post my results here after testing. I am running the 300 PRC. Prefit Proof Carbon barrel. Getting clicks at the top of the bolt like many of you. Easy bolt lift and no other signs of pressure. Click was there well under book max.


sent barrel back to proof to have it "polished out". Did NOTHING.

purchased Alex Wheeler reamer off JGS website and had my chamber set back/re-reamed. After doing this I still had a click but I was able to run 1gr higher and it was a much more manageable click. Still not happy with the results.

decided to try a Redding type s FL die instead of LE Wilson..... and sure enough after measure sized case from both dies the Redding sizes about 0.0015-0.002" more than my Wilson die. IT FIXED THE CLICK. I was able to run up to max book value of 78.1gr H1000 behind a 212 eldx using Lapua brass getting 3005-3015fps out of my 26" 1:9tw Proof carbon. No click. No ejector marks. No flattened primers. Easy bolt lift. Stopping there because my ES was 10fps over 5 shots.

So as Alex stated previously you would need his reamer specs and a tight factory die. This IS THE FIX.

also just FYI if anyone is wondering. I've got 2 pieces of Lapua brass I've been testing. Both had the "click" originally and were reloaded at the range over and over during testing. The click is gone now after the new reamer and die and are currently at 10 firings. Zero issues whatsoever. Tight primer pockets. Only annealed 2x between trips.

 

[Travis sackwar]

I also want to state that I am not knocking L.E. WILSON dies. I exclusively run all their does and seaters for all my rifles. 4 different calibers. Zero issues. Hardly any runout at all. I will continue to use them for other builds. For some reason I just got a bad one.

 

[Bob Wright]

Glad to hear. SAAMI tolerances are way too generous and overlap in die manufacturing. You fixed it in your situation. We shouldn't have to, but I don't see SAAMI re-writing the specs.
Only way forward is your method or all new cartridge designs that tighten the tolerances. Probably not going to happen.

 

[BrentM]

Glad to hear. SAAMI tolerances are way too generous and overlap in die manufacturing. You fixed it in your situation. We shouldn't have to, but I don't see SAAMI re-writing the specs.
Only way forward is your method or all new cartridge designs that tighten the tolerances. Probably not going to happen.

I don't necessarily agree. A simple die with tighter tolerances has proven to work so far. Jury is out if the problem will exist with hornady brass. I've got 2 firings on my test and won't re-install the barrel for a bit. Maybe in a couple weeks and I'll be on 3rd.

 

[Travis sackwar]

I'd be curious to see if that Redding die would've worked for me without re-chambering. But I guess I won't know till I shoot this barrel out and get a new one.

 

[Bob Wright]

I don't necessarily agree. A simple die with tighter tolerances has proven to work so far. Jury is out if the problem will exist with hornady brass. I've got 2 firings on my test and won't re-install the barrel for a bit. Maybe in a couple weeks and I'll be on 3rd.

The point I was trying to make is the tolerance is there and die manufacturers can be anywhere in that tolerance. With that, chamber design limits on reamers can vary within limits. But those two factors can cause extraction problems where the tolerances overlap. My 280AI is another example. Good gun builders will take that into consideration when ordering dies and reamers that work very well together. Production guns are a hit and miss opportunity and probably more so.
If my new Peterson brass springs back better than the Nosler, I might get away from the problem. Otherwise, it's back to the shop for a costly rework. We're talking about .001 or less one way or another. Frustrating...

 

[BrentM]

The point I was trying to make is the tolerance is there and die manufacturers can be anywhere in that tolerance. With that, chamber design limits on reamers can vary within limits. But those two factors can cause extraction problems where the tolerances overlap. My 280AI is another example. Good gun builders will take that into consideration when ordering dies and reamers that work very well together. Production guns are a hit and miss opportunity and probably more so.
If my new Peterson brass springs back better than the Nosler, I might get away from the problem. Otherwise, it's back to the shop for a costly rework. We're talking about .001 or less one way or another. Frustrating...

I wonder if anyone is going to manufacture a small base die and call it good? I expect Whidden to do. I also expect this to happen once we get past the covid bs and people are back on track shooting more rounds and voicing complaints. I have modified dies, a reamer, and custom die to address this bs. Likely a grand in stuff to try and understand how to address the case base issue. Not a lot of folks are interested in doing that, I know I wasn't but I also knew I had a lot invested so I was going to make this work before scrapping it for a sherman. Sherman already went through the pains of the magnum base expansion issue.

 

[Bob Wright]

I think Alex discussed this small base die. If it doesn't crack the die in extreme circumstances, your process is doing a great job. I planned to sacrifice one die by whacking the shoulder portion, removing a small part of the base to see if my problem brass could be bumped a tad bit smaller in diameter at the .200 line. Just not there yet until the Peterson brass is tested during new load workup after I retired very low round count/new Nosler "clickers". I think it is Nosler brass, being way to soft as well, but I have no hard evidence just yet. You have a great process even though you nailed 1000 bucks to the wall!

 

[Travis sackwar]

Not sure I'd retire those "clickers" pieces of brass just yet. My "clickers" went away on the same pieces of brass after I did the reamer and Redding die. The brass was still good. I'm using Lapua brass

 

[BrentM]

I think Alex discussed this small base die. If it doesn't crack the die in extreme circumstances, your process is doing a great job. I planned to sacrifice one die by whacking the shoulder portion, removing a small part of the base to see if my problem brass could be bumped a tad bit smaller in diameter at the .200 line. Just not there yet until the Peterson brass is tested during new load workup after I retired very low round count/new Nosler "clickers". I think it is Nosler brass, being way to soft as well, but I have no hard evidence just yet. You have a great process even though you nailed 1000 bucks to the wall!

Good point about the pressure. I think it's 2 parts, not sizing down far enough and not undersizing enough. When I sized my 5x adg brass in the custom whidden I was using hornady one shot spray and thought I was going to have to toss the brass. I switched to the hornady one shot wax and they all run butter smooth in the die and wind up at .5295-.530. My spec was .5275 on the ID at the web. Seems it's giving the .002 to .0025 spring back. If I recall my other dies all ran down to .5285 and spring back to .5305 to .5315. Most seemed to fall around .531. That .001 chamber clearance is not enough.

My hornady test is to run the brass in the Redding die, same as adg that created the issue, and see if develops the same problem. If it does, then I'll swap to the custom die and see how the brass reacts to it.

 

[elkaholic]

Hornady makes my dies and PRC dies. My 30 SM is a PRC parent and my dies are just fine! It took 2 tries, but Ben at Hornady worked with me and we have zero problems now.

 

[Bob Wright]

Hornady makes my dies and PRC dies. My 30 SM is a PRC parent and my dies are just fine! It took 2 tries, but Ben at Hornady worked with me and we have zero problems now.

Rich, we're you able to squeeze down previously fired brass to meet your requirements? I'm hoping that would be your experience....

 

[wasskeet]

Just a FYI, I have some Hornady now with 5 firings. They still hold primers and no clickers yet. Bear in mind I am probably running a light load compared to many here. I'll check again now, but have not needed a shoulder bump yet. Presently running 77gr. of 8133 with a a Berger 205 EH and 215M. About 3 grains less than what gave me slight ejector mark. Been using Hornady dies - just had some Whidden come in. Curious to see what happens now.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

What I have posted in this thread works and continues to work. I am running 230s at 3000 fps in my 300 PRC in a 28" Bartlien. About 500 rounds and have never seen a pressure sign or clickers. Dies are not all equal even from the same company. You have to measure everything. I have many chamberings out there that use ADG brass and have no issues with it at all so long as the chambers and dies are right. Heres a 10 shot group at 1000yds from a case based on ADG saum brass a customer shot (3.7") with brass thats got over 10 firings without annealing. It should last as long as you want to keep it. Most of what I do is 1000yd BR, in BR the rifles have to cycle perfectly. Extraction issues are not acceptable.