TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!

[FireFlyFishing]

I have to go now. The Rockstar is about to speak so I can regurgitate my dinner.

 

[Mike6158]

A good while back a friend of mine convinced, coerced, cajoled? me into using TTSX's for hunting instead of the VLD I had been using. Mind you, the VLD's didn't fail but he was afraid that one day we would have to root around in the game tunnels to find a kill. It never happened. We "hunted" out of a box (TX ranch "hunting" :/ It's better than nothing I guess) so the range was 100 - 150 at most. I shot 3 deer, with the 7mm Rem Mag and a 150gr TTSX and they dropped where they stood. There's a difference that's for sure. Last summer I got an F-Class itch (I got over it) and did some extensive load development with the same rifle and bullet. 400 rounds worth. Lots of powder tests, seating depth tests, and even a tuner brake test. I finally worked up a load that got me a sub 1/4" group at 100 yards and stopped testing. I still need to shoot it at 300 yards to see if it holds up. Point being, the TTSX's "fly pretty well" if you find their happy place.

More importantly... If Hammer and Berger merged, what would the company be renamed to?

 

[Rick Richard]

A good while back a friend of mine convinced, coerced, cajoled? me into using TTSX's for hunting instead of the VLD I had been using. Mind you, the VLD's didn't fail but he was afraid that one day we would have to root around in the game tunnels to find a kill. It never happened. We "hunted" out of a box (TX ranch "hunting" :/ It's better than nothing I guess) so the range was 100 - 150 at most. I shot 3 deer, with the 7mm Rem Mag and a 150gr TTSX and they dropped where they stood. There's a difference that's for sure. Last summer I got an F-Class itch (I got over it) and did some extensive load development with the same rifle and bullet. 400 rounds worth. Lots of powder tests, seating depth tests, and even a tuner brake test. I finally worked up a load that got me a sub 1/4" group at 100 yards and stopped testing. I still need to shoot it at 300 yards to see if it holds up. Point being, the TTSX's "fly pretty well" if you find their happy place.

More importantly... If Hammer and Berger merged, what would the company be renamed to?

HamBerger. lol.

 

[VLD Pilot]

If there was a better constructed bullet I might shoot it. But I don't think there's a better constructed killer than a 180 eldm.

This guy made it 2 feet…vertically. View attachment 410591

Agreed. I feel the same about 6.5/140, .257/134, .284/162 also.

 

[fordy]

Gday wyo300rum

How did you get the giraffe and buffalo in your freezer to shoot holes in later?
I think "heat and fam" is no longer with us. How sad.
Keep up the great work. I learn and enjoy reading your posts very much.
Thank you
Hey. I finally got through whole thread...

putting them in the salt is the way I like to do it overthere

Thanks for kind words & we are all learning & help ea other

Hey , More to come on this thread so your not through it all yet


Cheers

 

[WYO300RUM]

Gday wyo300rum


putting them in the salt is the way I like to do it overthere

Thanks for kind words & we are all learning & help ea other

Hey , More to come on this thread so your not through it all yet


Cheers

Can't wait. Thank you. Just to be clear, I was quoting heat _fam or whatever his name was when he said shooting animals that were dead or frozen or whatever he said. Actually what would it matter? I'm sure if the animals were in a cooler were shot already to test. If weren't frozen it would make no difference. Just rambling on and I'm sure you didn't put animals in cooler ! Again, welcome back and looking forward to more of your posts !

 

[fordy]

Gday outdrmn

Think I stirred up the pot a bit around 10 pages back been an interesting read on the reactions.

I really value your post as it's one that shows us the exact thing I look for secondly as accuracy is 1 ( accuracy can still be 2moa for some longrange combos but that's for another day , that was put up for @WYO300RUM & get him a ticking )

Moving forward let's not get into this brand pill or that pill brands or characteristics & just what the pill does so I'll leave the actual name out & treat it as just the pill
Please & surely this is not hard & general basics

PENETRATION is the most important part of the whole package of terminal results we need imo ( accuracy aside)

Example If you can't get to the vitals ( cns included ) your in for a long day as these ones were & both pills or parts of pills were recovered

So let's break your 162 gr pill ( yes let's forget brand & style ) down on a pill preformance side

That pill on that angle & that resistance gave you that amount of penertration on that elk

I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement here or I hope so if not please explain what this pill did

Now the one that stirs a few up so before anyone gets in a pickle please clear your head & breathe till you finish reading then digest the following

That 162 gr pill which only just made it with enough penetration yes it killed I get that but this is where I don't accept a pill that just kills as keep shooting & it will fail that I am willing to bet a lot on as you saw on my position of I'll gladly stand behind a elk with that combo but dosent look like that's going to happen

So keeping shooting that 162 gr pill & it may not be you outdrmn but someone will loose a elk with that pill due to what I stated in post 332 but it seemed to go over some heads as got into this brand vrs that

no it's what the pill does not what it's called

the way forward is to address the capabilities of that pill

Briefly
so we have the bar set with the 162 @ that preformance level now if we go to the 154 ( it is the same style to try & stay with the same characteristics)
You get less penertration yet only 8 gr less move that to a hypothetical 140 gr pill of the same characteristics you will get even less penertration ( hypothetical)

So do we see a pattern I hope so & ask would you shoot that 154 or hypothetical 140
I would assume not yet move to deer & any of those pills now become options on the basis above

Surely I've got that part correct in a basic manner

Now move to the 180 gr pill & you have now a little more penetration ( I assume off others thoughts & the base of a bigger pill will penetrate more but that's not always the case for other reasons I'll stay out of as trying to hone in on the basics )

Now if that extra 6 inches of penertration is required & it will oneday for someone if not you . Then by this simple method of addressing penertration requirements you won't be left wanting

you then can delve deeper into other factors which effect terminal results but I'm staying clear of those on this thread before I get anymore labels

Shoot what you want I've got no worries with that & if that is what you choose to do @least you now know the max angle resistance your combo can give / get a result & I would advise that is your limit

For everyone else I'd suggest having more insurance than the 162 pill has & don't worry about what it's called it's what the pill does that will dictate how many bases are covered ( insurance I like )

Jm2cw

Cheers

 

[memtb]

fordy, I think that we see things much in the same way…..unless I'm totally missing your point.

* accuracy is #1 ……paramount you must have accuracy to place the bullet were desired

* penetration……adequate penetration, while extensive penetration is not necessary with certain bullet paths and on all animals. However, a lack of penetration will eventually cost the hunter a wounded animal that is lost. Using a bullet properly placed, that will almost always give expansion with an exit…..trumps a properly placed bullet that offers minimal penetration!

While I may have misunderstood your post….but, the above post pretty clearly describes the qualities that I want in a bullet! memtb

 

[Outdrmn]

Gday outdrmn

I really value your post as it's one that shows us the exact thing I look for secondly as accuracy is 1 ( accuracy can still be 2moa for some longrange combos but that's for another day , that was put up for @WYO300RUM & get him a ticking )

Moving forward let's not get into this brand pill or that pill brands or characteristics & just what the pill does so I'll leave the actual name out & treat it as just the pill
Please & surely this is not hard & general basics

PENETRATION is the most important part of the whole package of terminal results we need imo ( accuracy aside)

Example If you can't get to the vitals ( cns included ) your in for a long day as these ones were & both pills or parts of pills were recovered
View attachment 552190View attachment 552312

So let's break your 162 gr pill ( yes let's forget brand & style ) down on a pill preformance side

That pill on that angle & that resistance gave you that amount of penertration on that elk

I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement here or I hope so if not please explain what this pill did
View attachment 552354

Now the one that stirs a few up so before anyone gets in a pickle please clear your head & breathe till you finish reading then digest the following

That 162 gr pill which only just made it with enough penetration yes it killed I get that but this is where I don't accept a pill that just kills as keep shooting & it will fail that I am willing to bet a lot on as you saw on my position of I'll gladly stand behind a elk with that combo but dosent look like that's going to happen

So keeping shooting that 162 gr pill & it may not be you outdrmn but someone will loose a elk with that pill due to what I stated in post 332 but it seemed to go over some heads as got into this brand vrs that

no it's what the pill does not what it's called

the way forward is to address the capabilities of that pill

Briefly
so we have the bar set with the 162 @ that preformance level now if we go to the 154 ( it is the same style to try & stay with the same characteristics)
You get less penertration yet only 8 gr less move that to a hypothetical 140 gr pill of the same characteristics you will get even less penertration ( hypothetical)

So do we see a pattern I hope so & ask would you shoot that 154 or hypothetical 140
I would assume not yet move to deer & any of those pills now become options on the basis above

Surely I've got that part correct in a basic manner

Now move to the 180 gr pill & you have now a little more penetration ( I assume off others thoughts & the base of a bigger pill will penetrate more but that's not always the case for other reasons I'll stay out of as trying to hone in on the basics )

Now if that extra 6 inches of penertration is required & it will oneday for someone if not you . Then by this simple method of addressing penertration requirements you won't be left wanting

you then can delve deeper into other factors which effect terminal results but I'm staying clear of those on this thread before I get anymore labels

Shoot what you want I've got no worries with that & if that is what you choose to do @least you now know the max angle resistance your combo can give / get a result & I would advise that is your limit

For everyone else I'd suggest having more insurance than the 162 pill has & don't worry about what it's called it's what the pill does that will dictate how many bases are covered ( insurance I like )

Jm2cw

Cheers

First off, your 2 cents worth are way more valuable than than mine

It took me a couple reads through your original response to get the main point (I hope idid)
Lack of penetration was what I came away with, not about what the label of the pill was. I hope to be teachable as I enter my fossil years and appreciate your thorough analysis. I use my 300wm primarily for elk, and thought with this opportunity i wanted see how my 7mm-08 and this bullet would perform. I get your point of Murphy showing up at some point with this combo so because of you fordy I'll be thinking from now on "what would fordy do"??? Might make a good T shirt! Again I hope to be teachable but to help me out please don't use big words

 

[JiggyIi]

Bruce, there is one small detail that many don't remember or know about Elmer……he liked large calibers at high velocity!

It was told that once at a hunting camp Elmer was asked about what he considered the perfect cartridge, his answer went something like this…. something that would trow a camp stove around 3,000 fps!

I approve his message! memtb

As I said before many Times: There is No Substitute for HP️

 

[fordy]

Gday memtb

fordy, I think that we see things much in the same way…..unless I'm totally missing your point.

* accuracy is #1 ……paramount you must have accuracy to place the bullet were desired

* penetration……adequate penetration, while extensive penetration is not necessary with certain bullet paths and on all animals. However, a lack of penetration will eventually cost the hunter a wounded animal that is lost. Using a bullet properly placed, that will almost always give expansion with an exit…..trumps a properly placed bullet that offers minimal penetration!

While I may have misunderstood your post….but, the above post pretty clearly describes the qualities that I want in a bullet! memtb

No misunderstanding
I like your response & a lot simpler than my writing

Cheers

 

[memtb]

Gday memtb

No misunderstanding
I like your response & a lot simpler than my writing

Cheers

I'm pretty much a "simpleton"! memtb

 

[memtb]

As I said before many Times: There is No Substitute for HP️

I've used that expression for many years, with several different things. Firearms/cartridges/bullets is just one of those things. memtb

 

[FireFlyFishing]

As I said before many Times: There is No Substitute for HP️

I took my 375 H&H mag out yesterday. I found an accuracy node at 2975 fps using the Barnes 235 TSX! Used IMR 4895. I followed Barnes load data and never got pressure signs on my brass. Highest recorded shot was 3014. Recoil is doable with the limbsaver butt pad. Oh I can't wait to take this thing out.

According to the Berger ballistics calc, this is now a solid 400 yard gun. It will kill past that, but the drop is significant and I'm not putting a turret scope on this rifle. Sighted at 200, anything within 300 is a chip shot…with a big darn hole in it!

There was a doe that was meandering through the range about when I hit that node. I had to chase her away to not get smacked by the big dog…