Single digit E.S. dont mean squat.

[Beluebow]

ES is like shooting groups...it doesn't get smaller after the first two shots.

The target tells the story....my best shooting rifles have an average of 8-12ES for five shots. Never let ES determine the load.

 

[dug]

Wow
I remember members here used to be polite and helpful ,
not out to prove each other wrong and down right mean to make themselves feel smarter or more experienced !

if your only hunting out 200-300 yrds and your es is large than maybe a longrange hunting forum isnt really the best place to share . ?

 

[jessej]

Wow
I remember members here used to be polite and helpful ,
not out to prove each other wrong and down right mean to make themselves feel smarter or more experienced !

Yep. It's easy for anyone (including myself) to get spun off in the wrong direction, especially on mondays. Hope everyone remembers we're all friends here.

if your only hunting out 200-300 yrds and your es is large than maybe a longrange hunting forum isnt really the best place to share . ?

There once was a time in my hunting/shooting life, that 300 yards was ELR…..for me.
The definition of long range is different for everyone imo

 

[MagnumManiac]

Your worst enemy is the Labradar and your lack of simple statistics and gravity knowledge. If you want to play with statistics and believing the target you need at least 30 shots on target to get into 90% confidence level ballpark. And you have to accept all 30 so you can see that statistics may be important but fundamentals behind the rifle are important too.

Why is this response aimed at me?

Cheers.

 

[ButterBean]

Wow
I remember members here used to be polite and helpful ,
not out to prove each other wrong and down right mean to make themselves feel smarter or more experienced !

if your only hunting out 200-300 yrds and your es is large than maybe a longrange hunting forum isnt really the best place to share . ?

Those days are long gone, it's sad

 

[Rick Richard]

Those days are long gone, it's sad

It is because WE allowed it.

 

[Huntnful]

Wait... when is an ES 21 not good? That's my target goal haha.

But seriously, I bet at least 90% of loads won't do 10 shots with an ES under 20. I just shot a 3 shot group with an ES of 1. Guess what? I kept shooting, and the ES kept growing, to about 20FPS hahaha. 10 shots with an ES under 20 is a winner in my book.

 

[dfanonymous]

This isn't about averages to me. I don't shoot out barrels for averages.
I shoot animals.
Out of curiosity, at what point is a sample size adequate to the statistical minded?

I don't disagree on that personally.
I hate reloading. Some guys like to make a super involved big thing about it.

That said, if you're a competitor or any of the various reasons for why someone would care for the having a good MV averages to work off of…then it makes sense to have that data.

If you're shooting a max of 500y a handful of times a year, then going hunting I suppose then 25-35 ES is good enough. 25-35 is still relatively good, in general, actually.

 

[Equalizer]

Wow
I remember members here used to be polite and helpful ,
not out to prove each other wrong and down right mean to make themselves feel smarter or more experienced !

Remember It's text, you can read a lot of things into it that may not be there. I'm not sure that people have manners anymore. (No not the stock)

 

[DoneNOut]

Ok, you meanies. I'll jump in here with my 2 scents.

Erik Cortina made sense in one of his videos when he stated two things goin on with a load and gun.

1. Combustion
2. Harmonics

Essentially your combustion can be out of whack, but the harmonics can be good and show tight groups at 100yds. This is TAC powder for me in everything I try with it! By the time I get the ES/SD down I'm either over pressure, or at the cusp.

So, reality hunting distances for me has been 300yd and closer. I'm not going to worry about the ES/SD.
I shoot ELR to 1 mile. I make sure my ES/SD are single digits.

I spoke to a 9 time World champ 1000yd benchrest pro. He said his secret was having as close to 0 ES/SD as possible. He would select the brass that would give the exact same velocities for his matches. Would have his kids fireform/fire for velocity on the weekends when he felt burnt out. He admitted his competitors could shoot just as good as him, but he eeked out the wins due to this aspect.

So, there ya go!

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Ok, you meanies. I'll jump in here with my 2 scents.

Erik Cortina made sense in one of his videos when he stated two things goin on with a load and gun.

1. Combustion
2. Harmonics

Essentially your combustion can be out of whack, but the harmonics can be good and show tight groups at 100yds. This is TAC powder for me in everything I try with it! By the time I get the ES/SD down I'm either over pressure, or at the cusp.

So, reality hunting distances for me has been 300yd and closer. I'm not going to worry about the ES/SD.
I shoot ELR to 1 mile. I make sure my ES/SD are single digits.

I spoke to a 9 time World champ 1000yd benchrest pro. He said his secret was having as close to 0 ES/SD as possible. He would select the brass that would give the exact same velocities for his matches. Would have his kids fireform/fire for velocity on the weekends when he felt burnt out. He admitted his competitors could shoot just as good as him, but he eeked out the wins due to this aspect.

So, there ya go!

Im not world champion lol but its what i try to do single digits. I sort out my brass thatll do that. Es of 20-30 is a excellent hunting load to 1000. Es of 100 might as well buy factory gun factory ammo and enjoy yourself. Btw i wasnt being disrespectful i was asking a serious question have you shot that at 1000 yards. He took it personally for some reason. Es sd does matter at distance and this wholr thread was about it doesnt matter. When it does now how much varies for what you need and do. But for sake of discussion. To get the very best out of any gun you need the group and es sd too match. If es didnt matter then velocity doesnt matter. If that doesn't matter all balistic calculations doesnt matter.

 

[Window]

It is because WE allowed it.

Those days aren't gone and I truly believe that even those with polar opposite opinions mean no harm. It's just what they believe based on their experience or what someone has told them. I was young once and had opinions based on what I experienced in small sample sizes but more than not, I was proven wrong even though I took way more money from them than they did from me but we never shot pst 500. I'm not an ELR guy although I'm in the process of building a ELR rifle. But I will say from experience, an es or sd over 20 will show on targets past 700 yards and conditions from morning to afternoon or day to day can have a significant impact.

 

[Culpeper]

Why is this response aimed at me?

Cheers.

 

[Culpeper]

Wow
I remember members here used to be polite and helpful ,
not out to prove each other wrong and down right mean to make themselves feel smarter or more experienced !

if your only hunting out 200-300 yrds and your es is large than maybe a longrange hunting forum isnt really the best place to share . ?

I think we all have been nice as possible based on the level of misinformation cited by a couple of misguided claims made. I rarely post and I think this is the first thread I spit out my morning coffee as a first reaction to one in particular. I get an email from here once or twice a week highlighting certain threads to draw traffic. The title of this one caught me eye. I apologize if I was curt.