Getting ES and SD down to single digits

[DoneNOut]

Try shooting at, 500-600 Yards as it's a bit easier to get, GOOD consistent, groups than at, 800 yds.
A tiny bit of unseen wind, can "screw up", 700 - 800 Yard groups,.. IMO

You know what? I actually shoot better groups at distance. Something about the 100yd mark I psyche myself out about! LOL

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. While the weather is decent I would like to work out to 800 yards and see how accuracy holds. I have a friend with an annealer so maybe running the cases through will help even out the neck tension.

The single most important thing I ever did to improve consistency in my reloads was to start paying attention to neck tension.

If you inspect your empty case necks closely you will find they are not consistent in thickness all the way around nor completely uniform from batch to batch.

If your chamber has enough tolerance this will not cause you much issue hence people talking about "no turn necks" but unless your chamber tolerances are specific to this type of loading you will have some issues.

If you are not already turning necks try it on fifty or so and see what that does for you.

Second to improve consistency I started putting a light crimp on all my loads at consistent depth and pressure.

It sounds like you are getting down to hair splitting minutae for nth degree accuracy and consistency which means you're already doing very well. As mentioned above, don't go crazy on it or you will drive yourself nuts, burn up lots of components, and maybe even burn through a nice new barrel before you ever reach that nth degree.

If you're trying to kill game rather than win a world championship shooting targets ask yourself what it's really worth in time, money, and frustration to get to that nth degree.

 

[WildRose]

You know what? I actually shoot better groups at distance. Something about the 100yd mark I psyche myself out about! LOL

Because in your mind it's a chip shot not worth the same level of seriousness and concentration of a 600-1,000yds shot. That's how our brains work so it takes brain work to overcome it.

 

[Bob Wright]

If you're hitting .5 moa at 200 yards distance consistently, you shouldn't worry about ES/SD. Take it out to your max hunting limit and shoot there. Some guns don't really care about variation in some velocity changes. If you have flyers, then you can dig deeper.

 

[Elkeater]

I shoot groups at the distances that I intend to hunt at and if the 1/2 MOA accuracy is consistent in don't worry about the ES/SD. Chasing numbers on a chronograph is a good way to waste time and components.

Finally someone who does what I do. If I'm still shooting good groups at 800 yards without vertical strings I just go with it.

 

[338 dude]

On a side note, I bought an expander die and mandrels to use rather than the die expander ball. I removed the ball and sized my case then ran the expander mandrel through the neck. I went to seat a bullet for a dummy round and the bullet fell into the case!!!! Yes, I did have the proper mandral installed in the die. I have emailed the manufacturer to see how this can be remedied. Anyone else have this happen to them?

Sounds like you didn't get the neck sized down enough for the mandrel to do its job

 

[WildRose]

must have mismarked the expander have you measured it

On a side note, I bought an expander die and mandrels to use rather than the die expander ball. I removed the ball and sized my case then ran the expander mandrel through the neck. I went to seat a bullet for a dummy round and the bullet fell into the case!!!! Yes, I did have the proper mandral installed in the die. I have emailed the manufacturer to see how this can be remedied. Anyone else have this happen to them?

Run a piece of brass through your neck or full length resizing die. Measure the OD of the neck.

Run the expander ball through it.

Measure the neck.

What difference if any do you see?

Have you tried just running your brass through the resizing die and slipping a bullet into it? Did it "go" with finger pressure? If so you're not running it deep enough into the resizing die or have the wrong bushing in it.

 

[JLDavid]

Got it figured out. I am an idiot. My old chamber was tight neck and I had to turn the necks way down. My standard FL sizer die just barely sized the neck of the turned brass. I ordered a no turn reamer and cut my new chamber after setting my barrel back. When I was setting the die up I accidently grabbed a piece of brass for my old chamber so it was user error. Ran a piece of unturned, non fireformed brass through and am good to go.

 

[Bobcape]

This has some great info for controlling ES.

Bob

 

[PNWdude67]

Not sure if this is the right place for this but I will start here. I am working with a wildcat based on a 7SAUM case. This is set up as a hunting rifle with a sporter stock and barrel with a brake. I am shooting moly 168 Berger Classic Hunter bullets and 66.5 gr of IMR 8133 powder. I use WLR primers in Remington brass. I know that 8133 is way slower than most powders that shooters use for that case and bullet but I have a lot of it. Accuracy is .3" at 100 and sub-.5MOA so far at 200 yards. I can't get my ES and SD down around single digits which from what I read is key in long range accuracy. What do you guys do to tame these variables? Any help is appreciated.

Neck tension, address both outside and inside diameter of the neck and anneal before forming.

 

[JLDavid]

I have some tools coming from Midway this week. I will take what I have learned here and put it on paper and see where we get. Thanks to all for the advice.

 

[JLDavid]

One last question, can moly be substituted for graphite or mica for inside case neck lube?

 

[WildRose]

Got it figured out. I am an idiot. My old chamber was tight neck and I had to turn the necks way down. My standard FL sizer die just barely sized the neck of the turned brass. I ordered a no turn reamer and cut my new chamber after setting my barrel back. When I was setting the die up I accidently grabbed a piece of brass for my old chamber so it was user error. Ran a piece of unturned, non fireformed brass through and am good to go.

Nope, not an idiot for sure.

The reason this place exists is the fact none of us are born knowing all of this stuff and you could spend several lifetimes of study and experimenting to have access to the same level of experience and education you can get for free here in seconds or minutes.

 

[WildRose]

One last question, can moly be substituted for graphite or mica for inside case neck lube?

I would not use it. Using molybdenum either as a bullet coating or as a dry lube can cause a really nasty buildup over time in your chamber and barrel that creates pressure issues and can be really nasty to try and remove.

If you stick with the commercial case lubes from the better known manufacturers you'll do just fine.

I use the Hornady spray lube and spray both my bullets and my cases then let them dry before loading and to lube my reloading dies.

I've had really great results with it where I had somewhat inconsistent results and problems with build up in the dies with others.