Single digit E.S. dont mean squat.

[MagnumManiac]

I took it that way, not laughing at your guns performance but I assumed he was being comical about the potential vertical dispersion…?

I clearly stated it was for 100 metre shooting…not 1,000.

Cheers.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I clearly stated it was for 100 metre shooting…not 1,000.

Cheers.

Yes I read it correctly earlier.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

I clearly stated it was for 100 metre shooting…not 1,000.

Cheers.

Yes but you said the target tells the story. On a thread about es sd doesn't mean squat… when it does. Es of 100 will show its true colors at even 300 let a lone 1000. Too each there own my point was it does matter for long range shooting. That is if you want to hit your target.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Yes but you said the target tells the story. On a thread about es sd doesn't mean squat… when it does. Es of 100 will show its true colors at even 300 let a lone 1000. Too each there own my point was it does matter for long range shooting. That is if you want to hit your target.

No it doesn't, no matter what you believe, and no mention was made of shooting at 1,000…
ES at 300 makes NO difference to POI, prove me wrong.
Ignore list you go.

Cheers.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Lol

 

[Barehandlineman11]

No it doesn't, no matter what you believe, and no mention was made of shooting at 1,000…
ES at 300 makes NO difference to POI, prove me wrong.
Ignore list you go.

i wasnt being mean lol. But i cant prove you wrong i dont load anything with es of 100. Simple ballistic calculation will tell you your wrong. But hey wonder why pro shooters chase small numbers must not matter

 

[nksmfamjp]

An ES based on 3 shots is little more than a nice swag…you know it won't get better.

An ES based on 20 shots is of some value.

Frankly, I'd rather you look at Sd.

 

[Mikecr]

Can it get better? ….it could. If you have only 1 or 2 outliers in a groups velocity of 10 or more shots…It can extremely effect your average…depending on how extreme those outliers are…and that's what we typically look at…the average right? Or alternatively, if it's a small deviation, it might not have any significant affect at all.

This isn't about averages to me. I don't shoot out barrels for averages.
I shoot animals.
Out of curiosity, at what point is a sample size adequate to the statistical minded?

 

[ButterBean]

I have a load for my custom 25-06 that shoots 10 rounds all touching at 100 metres, but has an ES of over 100fps…the target tells the story!

Cheers.

Exactly, I had loads that shot awesome before I even knew what a Chrony was, finally got one and like you the ES was all over the place, killed a pile of critters regardless, I feel the same about bore scopes

 

[Equalizer]

I don't really get the point of the question, if that was going to be the response.

Can it get better? ….

Actually it can't. If you shoot 3 and the es is x no matter how many more shots you take the es will never be smaller than x. I'm pretty sure that was his point.

 

[Equalizer]

Mike you tried to argue this same point with Alex on accurateshooter, anything you do with primers, seating depth, powder, Neck tension is tuning the load. They all can make it better or worse.

Changing primers and powder wouldn't be tuning because they are the base components for the load. You can change any component but that would not be "tuning" that would be a different load. Tuning would be adjusting the load not changing it. ie seating depth, charge weight or neck tension would be tuning.

 

[DLJ6]

Every variable maters but we have to pick and choose what we want to be concerned about.

 

[Culpeper]

I clearly stated it was for 100 metre shooting…not 1,000.

Cheers.

Your worst enemy is the Labradar and your lack of simple statistics and gravity knowledge. If you want to play with statistics and believing the target you need at least 30 shots on target to get into 90% confidence level ballpark. And you have to accept all 30 so you can see that statistics may be important but fundamentals behind the rifle are important too.

 

[biednick]

Out of curiosity, at what point is a sample size adequate to the statistical minded?

It depends on exactly what you're trying to determine. If you shoot a 5 shot group with an ES of 100 you can safely say it's not a winner. On the other hand, a 5 shot group with an ES of 20 might not show acceptable velocity spread over many rounds. After 5 rounds you can decide a load isn't bad, but you can't decide a load is good.

If you're at the end of your load development and are taking measurements of your final load, 25-30 rounds is usually adequate. It doesn't have to be a single group or string, you can aggregate 5 or 10 round groups to get the same data if you want.

For velocity there's no reason not to collect data while zeroing and collecting dope, so you can easily get a sample of 100 or more rounds.