Scope leveling idea

[Stammster]

Thoughts on rifles with no flat surface to put a level on? I have had this issue with several rifles and haven't been smart enough to figure a good solution.

If using horizontally split rings, here is what I do...
1.) Install base and bottom half of rings.
2.) Place level across ring (front or rear, your choice).
3.) Install another level on barrel (Wheeler clamp on), and set to match one across ring.
4.) Remove level from top of ring, and install scope
5.) Place level on top of scope turret, and rotate scope until it matches the one clamped on the barrel.
6.) Tighten scope rings and verify alignment maintained
7.) Remove levels - all finished.

 

[thaught]

If using horizontally split rings, here is what I do...
1.) Install base and bottom half of rings.
2.) Place level across ring (front or rear, your choice).
3.) Install another level on barrel (Wheeler clamp on), and set to match one across ring.
4.) Remove level from top of ring, and install scope
5.) Place level on top of scope turret, and rotate scope until it matches the one clamped on the barrel.
6.) Tighten scope rings and verify alignment maintained
7.) Remove levels - all finished.

Thank you for that cogent response.
I will note that I do indeed try to level the scope to the rifle but with little tooling to absolutely ensure bore/scope continuity. So I do what I can and don't fret about what I can't yet accomplish. The results have been very good so far.

Sounds pretty close to what I did. Thanks

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

I was installing a NF ATACR today and came up with an idea that I think worked very well for leveling the scope. Normally, I level the rifle by setting up a plumb line about 50 yards away. Then through a series minor adjustments, get it level. Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it's more finicky. I keep telling myself to get a DE level to speed the process up, but I haven't yet. Anyways, this scope was really hard to get level and I thought to myself, what if I put the scope on a level surface, resting on the bottom/flat housing and then put a level on the turret caps. If the scope isn't level, I'll turn the turrets until the scope is showing level. 1/3 of a rotation of the turrets got the scope perfectly level. Then I took the scope, set it in the rings, leveled it off the turrets that I knew were level 5 seconds before, and tightened them down. Much easier. Has anyone done it this way before?

Haven't done it, but will def do so in the future!!

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

I was installing a NF ATACR today and came up with an idea that I think worked very well for leveling the scope. Normally, I level the rifle by setting up a plumb line about 50 yards away. Then through a series minor adjustments, get it level. Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it's more finicky. I keep telling myself to get a DE level to speed the process up, but I haven't yet. Anyways, this scope was really hard to get level and I thought to myself, what if I put the scope on a level surface, resting on the bottom/flat housing and then put a level on the turret caps. If the scope isn't level, I'll turn the turrets until the scope is showing level. 1/3 of a rotation of the turrets got the scope perfectly level. Then I took the scope, set it in the rings, leveled it off the turrets that I knew were level 5 seconds before, and tightened them down. Much easier. Has anyone done it this way before?

By "what if I put the scope on a level surface", I assume you first placed your level on the surface to confirm that it was indeed level in the place where you positioned the scope.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

If using horizontally split rings, here is what I do...
1.) Install base and bottom half of rings.
2.) Place level across ring (front or rear, your choice).
3.) Install another level on barrel (Wheeler clamp on), and set to match one across ring.
4.) Remove level from top of ring, and install scope
5.) Place level on top of scope turret, and rotate scope until it matches the one clamped on the barrel.
6.) Tighten scope rings and verify alignment maintained
7.) Remove levels - all finished.

The one thing I would add: tighten your scope cap screws gradually, moving back and forth from right to left while tightening in small increments. Watch the space between the scope ring caps and bases and try to keep them even.
In the case of scope rings with 4 screws/cap, alternate from right to left in a diagonal manner. And don't forget to use a torque screw driver (Fat Wrench is great) to tighten according to the scope manufacturer's spec. (Usually 23-25 ft-lbs.)

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

While I make an effort to level my scope/action to each other I can't help but wonder how a circle (the bore) can be level. NPA is different for most of us and forcing a rifle into position is inherently not conducive to repeatable results. I take great care to align the reticule to a plumb line and confirm that the turret and anti-cant device all agree. A tall target test confirms the rest. So please explain why it is more important to produce rifle/reticule agreement than rifle/shooter agreement (NPA). This is with respect to field position rather than bench shooting.

You aren't "leveling the bore." Your goal is to rotate the scope so the vertical axis of the reticle, when extended, would pass through the center axis of the bore.

 

[Stammster]

The one thing I would add: tighten your scope cap screws gradually, moving back and forth from right to left while tightening in small increments. Watch the space between the scope ring caps and bases and try to keep them even.
In the case of scope rings with 4 screws/cap, alternate from right to left in a diagonal manner. And don't forget to use a torque screw driver (Fat Wrench is great) to tighten according to the scope manufacturer's spec. (Usually 23-25 ft-lbs.)

Yep. I tried to keep the above at a high level, specific to what was asked. All the rest for mounting a scope applies (torque, lapping - if required, setting eye relief, etc). I'm so OCD, I use a spark plug feeler gauge set to make sure I have the same gap on each side of my split rings while tightening and at final torque.

 

[FEENIX]

Real Avid Riflescope level Right Pro
Ordered on of these but not yet received so can't comment yet. Looked interest and will let you know n

I like the concept, might have to give it a try. Thanks for sharing.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Thoughts on rifles with no flat surface to put a level on? I have had this issue with several rifles and haven't been smart enough to figure a good solution.

I'm not sure how each manufacturer does their datum scheme, but they are going to have a datum scheme like bolt bore axis and action face to hold the action. Then they are going to cut the outer shape off that. you want actions with minimal polishing. The polishing is where non-custom actions get out of whack. Given this, I like to get my bases level and flat to each other and set that as my flat to level off of. I do this with a 1 pc too. Just get the screws so they are holding the base under light friction and tap until evenly level. Then I level that to make the rifle level.



Given unlimited resources, I would develop a 25 yd bore optic with a crosshair and an electronic level accurate enough to limit angular variation error to 1/10 of an accurate rifles best 1000 yd group. It would slide into the action bore axis and lock. Then adjust to make muzzle concentric to the tool. That defines the bore axis.

Then set a tall target perfectly vertical by electronic level at 25 yards.

Then place the bore optic's crosshair on the vertical line of the tall target.

Then rotate the rifle until the new optically centered riflescope's reticle center and the bore optics center are on the tall targets vertical line.

Not the bore center and optic center are on the same vertical line. Next align the reticle to this line. Then lock down the scope rings so it won't move.

Last confirm turret alignment at 0 and plus 10 mils (1000 yd offset). Adjust as desired.

Since this idea only requires a bore centerline, I think it could be done with a bore centered laser, instead of the unknown bore optic. I haven't seen a bore centered laser that I'd trust. Have you?

 

[ntsqd]

It is really simple, the vertical ref in the retical when extended down needs to intersect the bore centerline, and the plane defined by that line and center-line needs to contain the bullet's flight path (assuming no wind influence).

How to get there seems to be where every cat has his own idea of how it should be done and some folks get wrapped around the axle over what to choose as the starting datum plane. With a two lugged bolt that is easy (for me anyway), choose the bottom of the bolt raceway and square the scope mount base, the scope itself, and the butt pad of the stock to that.

 

[Rflshootr]

It is really simple, the vertical ref in the retical when extended down needs to intersect the bore centerline, and the plane defined by that line and center-line needs to contain the bullet's flight path (assuming no wind influence).

How to get there seems to be where every cat has his own idea of how it should be done and some folks get wrapped around the axle over what to choose as the starting datum plane. With a two lugged bolt that is easy (for me anyway), choose the bottom of the bolt raceway and square the scope mount base, the scope itself, and the butt pad of the stock to that.

And what happens if the stock is slightly mis-inletted or the the scope base holes are slightly off center, or the tapped holes in the receiver are slightly off center or there is a combination of these characteristics? And BTW, I've seen all of these manufacturing tolerances/defects at least once and some of them multiple times.

 

[ntsqd]

I spent enough time behind the shop counter to see a lot of that too. I didn't say fixing the problems would be easy. Just that the end goal is easy to define. Pick a logical datum plane and work from it, quit worrying about what the mfg used for a datum.

What matters is that the butt-stock puts the scope directly over the bore when shouldered by the shooter. The rest of the stock shape maybe matters and maybe doesn't. Is the shooter the Cale Yarborough of shooters? If so then it could be a warped plank of knotty pine and he'd shoot at or near the top of relay with it.

If the scope base mount holes are not square to that raceway rail they need to be corrected.

 

[Bravo 4]

Has anyone done it this way before?

I read several years back about someone doing this.

 

[thaught]

I read several years back about someone doing this.

You're the first one to answer that question