Scope leveling idea

[lyotehunter]

You are supposed to level nightforce scopes off of the bottom not the turrets

 

[Laguna Freak]

I was installing a NF ATACR today and came up with an idea that I think worked very well for leveling the scope. Normally, I level the rifle by setting up a plumb line about 50 yards away. Then through a series minor adjustments, get it level. Sometimes it is easy and sometimes it's more finicky. I keep telling myself to get a DE level to speed the process up, but I haven't yet. Anyways, this scope was really hard to get level and I thought to myself, what if I put the scope on a level surface, resting on the bottom/flat housing and then put a level on the turret caps. If the scope isn't level, I'll turn the turrets until the scope is showing level. 1/3 of a rotation of the turrets got the scope perfectly level. Then I took the scope, set it in the rings, leveled it off the turrets that I knew were level 5 seconds before, and tightened them down. Much easier. Has anyone done it this way before?

Best as humanly possible, I use an "accurate" trim carpenter's pocket level on the bottom of the forearm, top of the receiver, and the elv turret cap with scope on the rifle and loosely held by rings while rifle is clamped in position. I use a micrometer and straight edge to align mounts with receiver. Then like you, I use a plumb line to confirm vertical. I use a brass plumb bob. You can easily get a large enough and/or colorful enough line to see it.

Aside from that, I read another post in LRH where the poster used the plumb line on a wall with a light shining through the scope to cast the reticle shadow onto the wall. Haven't tried this yet but seems like it might work.

 

[thaught]

You are supposed to level nightforce scopes off of the bottom not the turrets

I get that and totally agree. But what I did was make the turrets level with bottom housing. I did this by turning the turrets until it showed level, just as the it was level with the housing I turned the scope 10 moa and it was level based of the turrets. When I went to mount the scope, assumably the turrets were level.

 

[jdyoung]

Best as humanly possible, I use an "accurate" trim carpenter's pocket level on the bottom of the forearm, top of the receiver, and the elv turret cap with scope on the rifle and loosely held by rings while rifle is clamped in position. I use a micrometer and straight edge to align mounts with receiver. Then like you, I use a plumb line to confirm vertical. I use a brass plumb bob. You can easily get a large enough and/or colorful enough line to see it.

Aside from that, I read another post in LRH where the poster used the plumb line on a wall with a light shining through the scope to cast the reticle shadow onto the wall. Haven't tried this yet but seems like it might work.

How do you center the light shinning through the scope and keep it centered during the process ? If the light is off center, won't the reticle shadow be off in the opposite direction ?

 

[thaught]

How do you center the light shinning through the scope and keep it centered during the process ? If the light is off center, won't the reticle shadow be off in the opposite direction ?

I've done this before too, and believe it or not, the light doesn't have to be centered, it's shadow is cast and doesn't move even if you move the light.

 

[Dirtrax]

While I make an effort to level my scope/action to each other I can't help but wonder how a circle ️ (the bore) can be level. NPA is different for most of us and forcing a rifle into position is inherently not conducive to repeatable results. I take great care to align the reticule to a plumb line and confirm that the turret and anti-cant device all agree. A tall target test confirms the rest. So please explain why it is more important to produce rifle/reticule agreement than rifle/shooter agreement (NPA). This is with respect to field position rather than bench shooting.

 

[Laguna Freak]

While I make an effort to level my scope/action to each other I can't help but wonder how a circle ️ (the bore) can be level. NPA is different for most of us and forcing a rifle into position is inherently not conducive to repeatable results. I take great care to align the reticule to a plumb line and confirm that the turret and anti-cant device all agree. A tall target test confirms the rest. So please explain why it is more important to produce rifle/reticule agreement than rifle/shooter agreement (NPA). This is with respect to field position rather than bench shooting.

I would think they are both equally important. But we have to set up the equipment true before we can apply the shooter.

 

[davidu]

The NF ATACR comes with a wedge leveling device that works
I have all the scope bubble levels there are and use them All to verify the others as levels aren't always "level"
The leveling device below is a great little tool that takes the guesswork out leveling your scope. And it's not expensive

 

[ntsqd]

That is a pretty neat little tool! Only thing it doesn't address is the issue of the internal mechanics not tracking in line with the reticle, which happens, even on expensive optics on occasion. It would still need to be shot on a tall target to ensure there aren't any unseen issues, however that is an excellent idea for plumbing up the reticle!

I built my own one of those using a piece of 1/4" 6061-T6 and a circular bubble level from McMaster and a 12" long section of pictinny rail from amazon. Three M6 hex heads, two in opposing corners and the opposite centered between the corners level the plate. After screwing it all together I used an electronic level to confirm both that the bubble level was correct and that the top of the rail was parallel to the top of the 6061 plate. Almost took longer to describe the build than to do it. I have the Wheeler levels, not too impressed with them. I bought the Arisaka leveling tool and will get to try it soon.

I still owe the forum a pic of the tool that I used to use and need to make another one of. Picture a piece of clear plexiglas bent in a sharp 90°. It is the width of the bolt raceways and has a vertical line scribed in it. Remove the bolt and place the tool on the raceways. Look through the tool at the retical. Rotate the scope until the vertical reference in the retical is parallel to the scribed line. Tighten the scope.

If the bore is not directly under the vertical reference in the retical, that is to say if the bore centerline and the vertical post or reference in the retical are not in the same vertical plane then as the distance increases windage error creeps in. Not long ago someone here put it better than I'm managing right now. You can make the POA and the POI agree for one distance when they are not coplanar, but when the distance changes the POA laterally moves away from the POI. When they are coplanar then excluding any wind influence the ballistic arc of the projectile's path is also coplanar and you get no distance induced "windage" error.

If the NPA (Natural Point of Aim?) hold is skewing the rifle off vertical then the rifle needs an adjustable butt to get it vertical while in the NPA hold.

 

[skipglo]

Thoughts on rifles with no flat surface to put a level on? I have had this issue with several rifles and haven't been smart enough to figure a good solution.

Barrel level.....Wheeler!

 

[WahooYahoo]

I use a US Optics bubble "anti-cant"level for hunting/shooting. So I just level the rifle in a vice according to the bubble and then level the scope by aligning the crosshairs With a plumb. Incidentally setting a level across the turret is likewise level. No difference.

 

[ntsqd]

I've used the top of the adjuster cap in the past, but I'm not likely to use one on a LR rifle, just on short range stuff.

It is too bad that Wheeler didn't opt to make those levels with aluminum instead of plastic. I'd have a lot more faith in their rigidity and repeatability if they had.

 

[Jeffpatton00]

The problem I have with understanding everyone's comments is that so many of them describe referencing "level" off mechanical features of the rifle or scope, like the rifle's pic rail or the scope's bottom or turret top. It seems to me than none of these are important, so maybe I'm missing something that you all see. However, it strikes me that only 2 reference lines are important in scope leveling: 1) an invisible vertical "dotted line", running from the center of the barrel to the center of the scope. All elevation adjustments will be along this line, but leveling the rifle off the top of the pic rail may be way out of plumb with respect to this line. So, making certain this line is truly plumb sets the rifle's level. I haven't done this but I'd imagine hanging a plumb line off a wall, then looking down the rifle's bore to ensure the plumb line is visually "centered" in the bore as much as possible, then rotate the rifle (in a vise or other fixture) until the reticle's center point is exactly centered on the plumb line (while the bore remains centered on the line), and at this point we've set the rifle's level. 2) The scope's reticle must then be made plumb to the rifle/scope plumb line by carefully rotating the scope, within the rings, until the reticle's vertical axis is perfectly aligned with the distant plumb line. This should be confirmed via a tall target test.

I'm hoping to simplify the scope leveling process for my simple mind, rather than make things more complex. Am I making a fundamental error in my thinking above? It all seems to get down to what it means to level the rifle, and I think setting the rifle's level off a mechanical feature like the pic rail means that we have to make a lot of assumptions: the pic rail is square to the barrel rather than slightly higher on one side or the other, or the scope's Mfr made the scope's bottom or turret top square to the elevation's line of action, etc. We should be able to avoid all those assumptions by simply aligning the rifle's "vertical" to this line between the bore's and the scope's centerlines. What do you think?
Jeff

 

[rcnut]

I have a bubble level app. On my phone, set my rifle in vice set my phone on the top rail and adjust till dead center level, tighten it and then set the scope on put the level on the turrets and adjust till dead on and tighten. The app is very sensitive to a hundredth of a degree