Reloading- What pressure signs do you stop at?

[D_Rob99]

Your last sentence may be more true than you realize. I live close to the SC coast and we see alot of 95 degree plus high humidity days. I've seen many different factory loads lock a bolt up. Superformance factory loads do it quite a bit. I've seen some Winchester loads in 270 short mag do it quite often. Two or three times a deer season folks will call with a case stuck in the barrel. I'll Remove it, try another from the hunters box, sticks again. Change ammo, no more issues.

Happened to me with. Black hills and fed premium. Had a carbon ring.

 

[Chas1]

I monitor bolt lift, primer flattening, and ejector marks. Pressure is pressure so these things will move in concert. In my experience by the time you get heavy bolt lift you are already too far. I stop at a mild ejector mark and moderate primer flattening -- if you see that you are beyond standard pressures already.

Totally agree. I'm not a velocity freak, safety number 1.

 

[VinceMule]

Very good information here, and if you want more velocity just go up a caliber, we shouldn't attempt to make a 308 shoot like a 30-06. When I was younger I did these things, but it's just not wisdom. A friend of mine just had a CZ rifle come apart because of pressure, it could have killed him, luckily he only received minor injuries, but it is just not worth it.

Tell your friend to shoot a Remington 700 or a model 70 Winchester, those things do not happen in these rifles due to bolt head design. Remington's three rings of steel is no joking matter when it comes to safety on overloaded cartridges. I saw a Rem 700 with a locked-up bolt. Guy came home from work, tired wanted to get away from his wife and kids for a while. He was reloading and the red can of IMR 3031 was used instead of H4831 in his 30/06. At the first shot at the rifle range, smoke poured out of the action, the bolt was locked up solid. I went with him to the gunsmith who pulled the barrel from the action. The case head had molded itself to the inside of the bolt head. Lug abutments in the action were fine, and so were the lugs on the bolt head. However, to get the case out of the bolt, the outside edges of the bolt nose were ruined including the area that held the extractor. The gunsmith ordered another bolt, and screwed the barrel back on, he is still shooting that rifle today.
Another elderly friend was going to teach his young grandson to reload. He used a 10g over a load of IMR 3031, and the 12year old grandson fired the load. Bolt froze up in the action, gasses poured out of the action of course.
The same thing, the gunsmith pulled the barrel and installed a new bolt, rifle is still being shot by the Son today. The rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint.

Not all actions are created equal when it comes to their ability to handle 150,000+ psi pressures on an accidental overload.

 

[skipglo]

Dear safety Steve, we ask politely that you sit this one out. Or, just limit your input to photographic evidence...

What pressure signs do you stop at?

This question is for the guys who want the most out of velocity. I have rifles that I don't push and just shoot for accuracy even if it is well below the max. I have a couple that I like to push to the max. So, where do you maverick's draw the line with pressure signs. Is it when primers begin to flatten, completely flatten, crater primers, hard bolt lift, ejector marks, swipe, etc.. I know there are false pressure signs, please include experience with that.

Rules for answering:
Rule number one: Safety First
Rule number two: Lets hear real world experience, not ethics or safety Steve ranting about not testing boundaries.
Rule number three: Let the dragon breath!

Dear Safety Steve...sit this one out ...See Rule No.1....I guess you are back in the game!
.

 

[Deleted member 8840]

Pressure signs isn't always about powder charge. Make sure your brass doesn't have unwanted problems if your loaded ammo doesn't chamber very smooth and easy find out why. If you have a hard time closing the bolt there is a chance you could gave a harder time opening it. Your case is to long, your neck or chamber needs cleaning, your bullet isn't seated deep enough, I have a tight neck 264 win and a standard 264 one. One day I put the standard rounds in the tight neck and blew a primer on the first round. Make sure the bullets have enough neck tension release there are several reasons it may not!.

 

[Louisiana Reloader]

Lot's of good advice here from mostly everyone. I agree with the gentleman stating that a chronograph is a must and also following reloading manuals. Personally for me it is bolt lift and ejector marks because the bolt faces in my gun allow the ejector to reliably print ejector marks on the brass when pressure starts to rise above safe levels. However, (and this is a big however) I also agree with the gentleman who stated that sometimes ejector marks can be unreliable due to the type of bolt and action you have. It just so happens that I can rely on ejector marks in the bolts and actions in my gun. You must "know" your guns and by this I mean intimately where you can determine the slightest amount of increased difficulty with both lifts. I also agree that Federal primers can sometimes flatten when pressure is actually ok. I had a 25-06 Browning that would flatten primers every time from factory Federal Premium loads. All this said, get yourself a good chronograph, be very familiar with your equipment, and heed warnings in reloading manuals. Know your limits. I will confess that I like hot loads; however not all my rifles shoot hot loads well and a couple do better by backing off max charges a little. Hope this advice was helpful.

 

[Paulstarr]

Dear safety Steve, we ask politely that you sit this one out. Or, just limit your input to photographic evidence...

What pressure signs do you stop at?

This question is for the guys who want the most out of velocity. I have rifles that I don't push and just shoot for accuracy even if it is well below the max. I have a couple that I like to push to the max. So, where do you maverick's draw the line with pressure signs. Is it when primers begin to flatten, completely flatten, crater primers, hard bolt lift, ejector marks, swipe, etc.. I know there are false pressure signs, please include experience with that.

Rules for answering:
Rule number one: Safety First
Rule number two: Lets hear real world experience, not ethics or safety Steve ranting about not testing boundaries.
Rule number three: Let the dragon breath!

The answer is NOT generic, it varies with calibre for example 223 Remington the primer will tell you and that will be back up when you re-prime that case, the primer will be very slack in in the pocket, if you proceed in using that case you WILL gas cut your bolt face, don't do it.Larger calibers the stiff bolt lift and primer flattening should tell you what you need to know.
Hope this helps.

 

[packgoatguy]

Usually will drop .5-1gr below ejector mark assuming no heavy bolt lift. Then will reload a couple cases over and over and make sure they last at least 4-5 firings.

However I did this with an absolute hammer load in my 30-06 that was sizzling fast but seemed ok by the above parameters. Using Varget so very temp stable.

Hunted in the snow and got pretty wet. Fired a round just to see what would happen…blew the primer. Not sure if the outcome would have been different with even factory loads but it does raise some concern on the validity of my methods.

I've seen a similar phenomenon... shooting in the cold, I think there is an effect where condensation can occur in the chamber between shots. Condensation equals moisture, and something about moisture or lubricant in the chamber is a bad deal for pressure issues.

Case in point: yesterday, temps in the high 20s, 80% humidity, and a light snowfall. Rifle was a 308win rem 700 clone. I was shooting from a shelter, so no snow on me or the rifle. 1st shot with a light factory load, no pressure signs. 1st reload on the ladder, no pressure signs. 2nd handload got sticky bolt lift and showed the imprint of the ejector on the brass. So, I fired a factory "warm" load (hornady superperformance) to compare. It also had a very sticky bolt lift and heavy ejector mark.

So... I shoved a dry paper towel on a wide brush into the chamber.

Next shot with the factory loads, no pressure signs. Next shot (and all remaining shots) with the hand loads, no pressure signs. But after each shot, I was running the paper towel into the chamber to be safe.

I've experienced this a time or two with other rifles. Always seems to happen in cold conditions. Interesting though... it never seems to manifest with any pressure signs on the primers, just sticky bolts and ejector marks on brass.

Bottom line... sometimes pressure signs have less to do with the powder charge, and more to do with external factors like moisture/temp.

 

[crm3006]

I usually start at least two grains below recommended loads, except for one .25-06 recipe I got from a trusted source and had fired many rounds made with it. However, when I am working up, usually to gain accuracy, I trust the primers. Flatten or blow back a primer, and that load will not get used. I value my eyes, fingers, and guns too much to push limits for a little more velocity. The deer and varmints will never know the difference!

 

[Mike Matteson]

Tell your friend to shoot a Remington 700 or a model 70 Winchester, those things do not happen in these rifles due to bolt head design. Remington's three rings of steel is no joking matter when it comes to safety on overloaded cartridges. I saw a Rem 700 with a locked-up bolt. Guy came home from work, tired wanted to get away from his wife and kids for a while. He was reloading and the red can of IMR 3031 was used instead of H4831 in his 30/06. At the first shot at the rifle range, smoke poured out of the action, the bolt was locked up solid. I went with him to the gunsmith who pulled the barrel from the action. The case head had molded itself to the inside of the bolt head. Lug abutments in the action were fine, and so were the lugs on the bolt head. However, to get the case out of the bolt, the outside edges of the bolt nose were ruined including the area that held the extractor. The gunsmith ordered another bolt, and screwed the barrel back on, he is still shooting that rifle today.
Another elderly friend was going to teach his young grandson to reload. He used a 10g over a load of IMR 3031, and the 12year old grandson fired the load. Bolt froze up in the action, gasses poured out of the action of course.
The same thing, the gunsmith pulled the barrel and installed a new bolt, rifle is still being shot by the Son today. The rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint.

Not all actions are created equal when it comes to their ability to handle 150,000+ psi pressures on an accidental overload.

Wouldn't that be just the other way around. He thinking he loading H4831, and instead he was using IMR 3031. There a lot different in the burning rate between the two. H4831 is a lot slower, than IMR 3031.

 

[Dean2]

Wouldn't that be just the other way around. He thinking he loading H4831, and instead he was using IMR 3031.

May want to re-read what he posted. That is exactly what he said, 3031 loaded by mistake. 3031 has a much faster burn rate, so an equivlanet amount will cause pressure issues. Max load for a 180 grain bullet is 56 grains of 4831, max load of 3031 for a 150 is 46 grains. If he loaded 56 of 3031 behind a 180 he was massively over pressure.

 

[Mike Matteson]

May want to re-read what he posted. That is exactly what he said, 3031 loaded by mistake. 3031 has a much faster burn rate, so an equivlanet amount will cause pressure issues. Max load for a 180 grain bullet is 56 grains of 4831, max load of 3031 for a 150 is 46 grains. If he loaded 56 of 3031 behind a 180 he was massively over pressure.

I guess your right.

 

[HockeyDad]

If my barrel looks like this, I usually back off 1/2 a grain.
.

 

[Mike Matteson]

If my barrel looks like this, I usually back off 1/2 a grain.
.

Are you sure. Maybe up a .5grs. . I am gald I wasn't around.