My perfect Wyoming Mountain rifle build thread

[BrentM]

Yup, love it. What action and barrel contour is that?

Bighorn TL3. X caliber carbon. Not sure what they use for a contour and I've forgotten the spec. It seems similar to sendero. A 18" it is pretty beefy and shows minimal poi shift with the can.

 

[ridgewalker]

20" just seems short for the 30 Nosler powder capacity. I may be missing something here (probably old traditional brain cells!)

 

[codyadams]

20" just seems short for the 30 Nosler powder capacity. I may be missing something here (probably old traditional brain cells!)

I went through it in my really, really long post, so I don't blame you if you didn't read it ha ha! But I wanted a compact handy rifle with a supressor, so that meant 20" or shorter barrel, and also a 215 @ 2900 or so, the only way to consistently get that velocity with a 20" barrel is a bigger cartridge. The WSM that many people seem to think is the only gun that will go bang with a short barrel simply won't make that performance level, at least not consistently or without heavily overloading it.

So it really was quite simple, I knew what I wanted out of the gun, as far as how it handled in the hands and in the pack, and overall ballistic performance, and I didn't want to compromise at all. So that really made the decision for me!

 

[ridgewalker]

Codyadams, thanks for trying to get me to understand. I'll be waiting to hear your chrono results. My somewhat limited experience (300 WM) indicates I would need a fast burning powder (rapidly increasing pressure) in order to get a complete burn out of a 20" barrel. My current Mdl 70 is 26".
So, I am very interested to hear your results. Stay safe!

 

[rustyshackleford]

I too want to see what people are getting from these 20" flame throwers. I'd like to see what quickload says about 215's at 2900 from a 20" barrel. Personally I wouldn't expect to see that but I've been wrong before.

 

[codyadams]

Codyadams, thanks for trying to get me to understand. I'll be waiting to hear your chrono results. My somewhat limited experience (300 WM) indicates I would need a fast burning powder (rapidly increasing pressure) in order to get a complete burn out of a 20" barrel. My current Mdl 70 is 26".
So, I am very interested to hear your results. Stay safe!

Actually that is not the case. The powders that get the best velocity with long barrels generally do with short barrels as well. Even a slow burning powder generally gets complete burn in under 20" in these big cartridges, it's not the continued powder burning that increases velocity, but the expanding gasses having more room to accelerate and impart their energy onto the bullet. Even quickload confirms that all, or nearly all the powder is burned in a short period. However, there is the possibility with the slower burning powders to have a higher e.s. due to turbulence from the high muzzle pressure that these powders create. So it's not a problem of unturned powder as much as it is unused energy. On the other hand, supressors do a good job of mitigating much of the muzzle blast and in turn can somewhat help maintain accuracy with high muzzle pressure. So you won't get higher velocity with faster powders, but you might get a better overall result. The only way to figure it out is to shoot it!

Also, Ryan Avery built a 30 nosler with a 20" tube over on rockslide, unknown munitions made a load for him that was running the 215 at a comfortable 2950 fps, in a ti action. I believe they were using H1000, so more velocity could possibly be had.

 

[highdrum]

You'll LOVE that action. I like your list of components. Be interesting to see where the 20" 30N lands velocity wise. I have a 300wsm carbon 22" tikka build thats about 9.5# with the TBAC ULTRA7 on it, self spotting isn't the easiest due to low weight/recoil. Perfect posture behind the gun is required to do so. I have a Bat vampire, ag alpine hunter, m5 hawkins oberndorf bdl, tt diamond in hand now. Still trying to decide on what bore/chamber i want. 338 prc is the plan at the moment.

 

[rustyshackleford]

You'll LOVE that action. I like your list of components. Be interesting to see where the 20" 30N lands velocity wise. I have a 300wsm carbon 22" tikka build thats about 9.5# with the TBAC ULTRA7 on it, self spotting isn't the easiest due to low weight/recoil. Perfect posture behind the gun is required to do so. I have a Bat vampire, ag alpine hunter, m5 hawkins oberndorf bdl, tt diamond in hand now. Still trying to decide on what bore/chamber i want. 338 prc is the plan at the moment.

Gonna need a picture of that one

 

[CA48]

Cody, Ryan is running 89gr of N570 at 2970fps with 215s last I saw out of his 20" Nosler. He also has the plus P throating by defensive edge.

My 20" 30 Sherman runs just under 2950fps with 215s at 84.9gr N570 and weighs about 10.7lbs with a NXS 5-22x56 & ultra 5 can with an empty 5 rd Mag

Although I probably have a fast barrel.

 

[Ernie]

Cartridge selection is likely one of the hardest, most complicated aspects of a build to get right for some people (or maybe just me, idk!) if it's one they aren't already set up for. Because of that, this is gonna be a novel, but it's how my mind works, so I apologize ahead of time!

This build started around first, what I physically wanted out of a rifle (compact, around 9 lbs, handy, supressed, and bombproof) and second, what performance I wanted, which was a 30 cal 200-215 grain bullet around 2850-3000 fps.

The first set of requirements narrowed it down to a short barrel, 18-20". Then, I had to find a cartridge that would meet my performance requirements out of said barrel. I didn't want to go too much over, as that burns unnecessary components and barrel life.

So, talking to the long range pistol crowd (thanks @Ernie specifically!) as well as some other open minded rifle smith's and experienced shooters as to the performance they have first hand seen with different cartridges from the 300 SAUM up to the 300 Lapua AI in short barrels, and that narrowed the playing field. I needed to have good brass available, either Peterson, Lapua, or ADG, that cut a couple out. At this point, I had decided on the XLR magnesium folding chassis, which uses a CIP length magazine in the long action, so 3.750" roughly depending on manufacturer was my limit for cycling. That help narrow it down more, to these -

300 WSM didn't quite make the cut, save a very few "fast barrels" (or hot loads), though that cartridge in a short barrel would have caught me less hate ha ha. The 300 wm, while a little bit, wasn't much ahead of that either. The 300 PRC is there or pretty close, but if not made with the right chamber/die combo, will end up giving clickers after a few fireings, and needed to be loaded warm to get there, and may not have a good node in the velocity range. The 30 Sherman mag (300 prc Sherman improved) seems to do it, and the case design and current dies fixed the clicker issue. Also, the 30 nosler met all the requirements as well. It goes without saying that the larger cases will meet the performance, and could possibly run with somewhat reduced loads, giving lower pressure and longer barrel life to offset the larger capacity, however the 300 RUM was simply way too long to mag feed. The 300 Norma and NAI were a consideration, but I didn't want to step up to the .585 Bolt face and larger/heavier action to go with it.

So at this point, the 30 Sherman mag and 30 Nosler fit the bill for performance. They both have great brass available, Lapua for the Sherman, ADG for the Nosler. They both have good efficient case designs. Some may argue the 35° shoulder of the nosler will feed better than the 40° shoulder of the SM, and they are probably right, especially if your feeding from a stagger feed, but I haven't ever had a hiccup from my 40° .260 AI fed from a s/a AICS mag, and as this will be a long action AICS, feeding is a draw for me. I currently don't have dies for either. Sherman dies are spendy, but so are any quality bushing style die that I would get for a 30 nosler, so that is also pretty much equal. The Sherman has the right throat, but I would just have my smith throat the nosler for the bullet I want to shoot, so also 6 one, half dozen the other.

Now we're getting down to splitting hairs....I haven't shot a factory load in any of my personal bolt action centerfire rifles in nearly 20 years. The Sherman is the same as an Ackley in that you can shoot factory 300 PRC ammo just fine. I probably see more long range options for the 300 PRC in factory ammo, but I see plenty of both available. Again, I don't care about any of this anyway ha ha. So why the 30 nosler......

Limited supplies, and not as dramatic of fireforming with the 30 nosler. I know, I know, virgin brass must be fireformed even in a SAAMI chamber to get a 100% accurate reading on your load, but there is less of it with the Nosler. I know I could just develope a "fireforming" load for the Sherman that would be plenty accurate, albeit reduced from full potential and just use that for a while, but I also know myself, and I know I wouldn't be happy with a fireforming load. I would blast through those first 50-100 rounds of brass as fast as I could while not overly torching the barrel, so I could develope a "real" load for the rifle, and loose all that precious powder and primers to fireforming, and to a lesser amount of importance, 100 rounds of barrel life. Also, with the same bullet seated properly in the neck of both cartridges, the 30 nosler will be about .040" shorter OAL. This may not matter, but the 205 SBDII I plan on running is a long bullet, and it may (or may not) make the difference, I haven't run the numbers yet.

Also, I have a few Sherman rounds, and I like them very much, and Rich is a fantastic, helpful, and very friendly guy that has given me tons of advice with loads for his cartridges. However, I also just want to try something different.

So, there is my nearly 1000 word dissertation as to why I picked one cartridge over another. Ha ha, it is stupid the amount of thought that has gone into this, but whatever, it's what I enjoy doing!!!

I am already looking forward to the range reports!
I am always glad to know that I had a part in enabling a custom build

 

[codyadams]

Cody, Ryan is running 89gr of N570 at 2970fps with 215s last I saw out of his 20" Nosler. He also has the plus P throating by defensive edge. My 20" 30 Sherman runs just under 2950fps with 215s at 84.9gr N570 and weighs about 10.7lbs with a NXS 5-22x56 & ultra 5 can with an empty 5 rd Mag Although I probably have a fast barrel.

Curious, what is the H20 capacity of your 30 sm?

Ya, from reports I have seen from other 30 noslers and the 30 sm, 2850-3000 with a 200-215 like my original plan was should be very doable. Thanks for your data!

 

[highdrum]

Gonna need a picture of that one

The Bat or Tikka?

 

[codyadams]

Have tracking numbers on the action as well as the chassis! The wait for the barrel is gonna be rough!

 

[highdrum]

Have tracking numbers on the action as well as the chassis! The wait for the barrel is gonna be rough!

How long did you wait for the element? I have a 3.0 and 4.0, tikka long and rem700sa. I feel the integration of arca into the 4.0 stiffened up the magnesium forend. That was my only complaint.