snox801
Well-Known Member
Well said. I always also hope for better for sure. Also no other place I'd like to live.
We can do better no doubt. I'm juts a firm believer that it will
Never be better with equity by force.
Medical Billing Errors - WTHELLO
- Thread starter Muddyboots
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
We can do better no doubt. I'm juts a firm believer that it will
Never be better with equity by force.
PatrickMadison357
Active Member
I cringe whenever I hear stories like this, my god I had medical bills up to my ears when I was younger I wasn't on my parents insurance I ended up having to pay $23k for a tooth infection that put me in the hospital at 18
Heck of a welcome to "On your own" kind of thing.
A third of the population is statistically a small percentage?
snox801
Well-Known Member
That's the problem. What you determine is
Pre-existing. Again you can't buy insurance after the fact. That's not insurance.
If that was the case I'd buy all mine after I wreck my car or I'd wait till I'm sick to buy it.
Insurance is a numbers game. You keep acting like it's a right. It's not. It's no more a right than food, shelter, transportation, power, and water. Buy you reasoning someone should be able to take your money and pay for that for me. Chances are most people can live longer without health insurance than food or shelter.
See the slope you are setting up?
Out of food and shelter those are vastly more important than health care. For most people.
So let's make those rights also and have a universal system for that. Oh wait that won't work because over half the country already refuses to or can't work.
Again I bet you would have a hard time pointing out one person you know that could not give up things in their life to pay for health care. Might make life tough but paying those bills you mentioned seems tougher.
Pre-existing. Again you can't buy insurance after the fact. That's not insurance.
If that was the case I'd buy all mine after I wreck my car or I'd wait till I'm sick to buy it.
Insurance is a numbers game. You keep acting like it's a right. It's not. It's no more a right than food, shelter, transportation, power, and water. Buy you reasoning someone should be able to take your money and pay for that for me. Chances are most people can live longer without health insurance than food or shelter.
See the slope you are setting up?
Out of food and shelter those are vastly more important than health care. For most people.
So let's make those rights also and have a universal system for that. Oh wait that won't work because over half the country already refuses to or can't work.
Again I bet you would have a hard time pointing out one person you know that could not give up things in their life to pay for health care. Might make life tough but paying those bills you mentioned seems tougher.
snox801
Well-Known Member
And yet because you are of good moral character you I assume paid your debt.
Nobody I fix a roof for wants to spend 10k for a roof on a house but it's what adults do. Or you could buy a new boat and complain about the cost of the roof like some people think we should do with healthcare.
This is coming from someone who has always bought his own health insurance for himself since 18 and for my family of 4 now. No company policy juts me. But I can't afford the alternative although I could truly have some amazing toys if I wanted to risk it.
A pre-existing condition is whatever insurance refuses to pay for because they consider it a pre-existing. For instance, you get covid and then 10 years from now you start having heart or lung issues. You have a lack of knowledge of how the system works. You can't wait until you get sick to buy health insurance. It does not work that way. It never has. You cannot hold the insurance company that you developed your pre-existing condition accountable for the entirety of your life. Its not even remotely realistic or possible. Insurance is a numbers game. It always has been and always will be. Insurance companies pay allot of money to get those numbers. As for the right to shelter and food, there is government assistance to provide food and shelter to those who can't afford it. They can get medicaid as well in many cases. Those rights and government programs already exist for the poor. As for people not wanting to pay for it, that is why they need to be taxed. Tax cigarettes and alcohol more. Tax junk food and soft drinks. Not saying make it unaffordable. Just add a quarter to a coke or bag of chips. Everyone who consumes that garbage, pays into the system regardless of how much money they make.
Here is a fact. Everyone gets sick and everyone uses the system. Why should you get out of paying into the system just because you are healthy now? There is no difference in what you are doing and waiting until you get really sick to buy insurance. The simple fact is that the day is coming where you will have medical bills that you won't have the money to write the check for and as a result we will be writing the check for you. We do it everyday for people who freeload off of the system. Having a public option and making sure everyone has healthcare coverage saves those of us who responsibly pay into the system allot of money.
snox801
Well-Known Member
First I'm not saying you can buy insurance after your sick but in your single payer that you are advocating for that's how pre existing would be covered.
Second one of us does understand how it works also free market and business.
Your simple lack of understanding how come and Pepsi are not free market tells me you lack understanding about this.
I've studied this a decent amount and I do understand the system my mother spent her entire adult career running a hospital and later a private collage program.
Understanding how it works does not matter anyhow you simply don't understand the concept of freedom.
That means no matter how unkind or cruel or unfair it may seem you have zero right to take my money by force to cover your health, you cannot use the government to Compel someone to take care of you.
Second the housing provided by the government is also wrong. I provided for my family why do I have to for anyone else?
Why can they take my money to do it?
You also seem to not be able to remember I have had major medical cost in my life and my son still does.
You know who paid for it me by being a responsible adult having crappy Material things, no cell phone till 2008. So that I could pay for my health insurance so I didn't have to rely on someone else and be a free loader.
That's at least my choice not forced upon the rest of the people to pay for it while I'm out making bad life choices.
And not sure where you think that your system would save money that's simple a false fact altogether or you get crap rationed care.
I'm mean I really think I need a new truck so I can get to work maybe I could lobby the government to get you to pay for it by force.
You can't seem to get past the fact that you seem to be ok with the government forcefully stealing money to pay for others things.
Guess we were raised differently or have different views.
Second one of us does understand how it works also free market and business.
Your simple lack of understanding how come and Pepsi are not free market tells me you lack understanding about this.
I've studied this a decent amount and I do understand the system my mother spent her entire adult career running a hospital and later a private collage program.
Understanding how it works does not matter anyhow you simply don't understand the concept of freedom.
That means no matter how unkind or cruel or unfair it may seem you have zero right to take my money by force to cover your health, you cannot use the government to Compel someone to take care of you.
Second the housing provided by the government is also wrong. I provided for my family why do I have to for anyone else?
Why can they take my money to do it?
You also seem to not be able to remember I have had major medical cost in my life and my son still does.
You know who paid for it me by being a responsible adult having crappy Material things, no cell phone till 2008. So that I could pay for my health insurance so I didn't have to rely on someone else and be a free loader.
That's at least my choice not forced upon the rest of the people to pay for it while I'm out making bad life choices.
And not sure where you think that your system would save money that's simple a false fact altogether or you get crap rationed care.
I'm mean I really think I need a new truck so I can get to work maybe I could lobby the government to get you to pay for it by force.
You can't seem to get past the fact that you seem to be ok with the government forcefully stealing money to pay for others things.
Guess we were raised differently or have different views.
With single payer, everyone is covered and everyone pays into the system so no matter when someone develops a pre-existing condition, they are covered and have been paying for that coverage. Also, I am for a public option, not single payer, but like the education system, you can get private insurance but will still be paying into the public option whether you opt for it or not. That system is used in numerous countries and it works very well. Again, if a person waits until the get sick to get the public option, they have already been paying into it. The other thing that people don't talk about is that people with health insurance are more likely to go see a doctor when they have an issue as well as more likely to get check ups and pre-screenings. Thats saves money because things like high blood pressure and high cholesterol can be detected early and be dealt with before they become something much worse and much more expensive to deal with.
Pepsi isn't free market? Thats a new one.
My father was a nuclear physicist my whole life and I have no understanding of nuclear physics. Just because a parent has been working in a field their whole life does not mean their children have a basic understanding of what they do.
What is the solution to the government provided housing? Do we throw them all in jail for vagrancy and provide housing, food, and healthcare that way? Do we throw them out into the streets with the homeless crowd? That won't cost society anything. Do we execute them so they won't be a burden? Is some magical charity going to take care of them all? Maybe the one that is going to cover the healthcare of 100 million people will be willing to take care of the poor as well.
I do understand how the free market works and I do understand freedom. The free market does not guarantee that you pay a fair price for goods and services especially when competitors agree to charge the same price for goods and services like they do in healthcare. I also understand that when you participate in a civilized society you surrender some freedoms and you don't always get a choice in everything that you have to pay for. Having to pay into things like healthcare and education even if you don't want to is the cost of living in a civilized society. There isn't a modern country on this planet where that is not the case.
You do have the option of moving to some third world country and disappear. Alaska is another option. You can disappear there pretty easily as well.
What are you going to do if something happens to you or your son and you end up with medical bills that you can't afford to pay? That person I mentioned who had the $2million medical bill from heart surgery. It was not the result of poor life choices. Apparently, he was born with some heart condition that he had to deal with when he got older. I don't understand exactly what happened but for some reason, he ended up paralyzed from the waist down from the surgery. Apparently, its not unusual. It was not permanent but will take years before he can walk on his own again. In addition to the surgery, he spent a month in the ICU and another couple months in the hospital. He has to get someone to take him in for therapy on a weekly basis. I have not talked to him in a while but the last I heard his medical bills were up around $2.5 million. If that happens to you, are you going to just write a check, put it on a credit card, or maybe put it on a payment plan? Its kind of funny. The brother of a friend of mine who is very conservative made a statement that left me in shock a couple of years ago. He said obamacare saved his life. I about fell out of my chair. In one year he had to have heart surgery and knee surgery and his medical bills for that year were around $900,000. Funny how people will bash things right up until they need it and then they don't hesitate to use it.
Pepsi isn't free market? Thats a new one.
My father was a nuclear physicist my whole life and I have no understanding of nuclear physics. Just because a parent has been working in a field their whole life does not mean their children have a basic understanding of what they do.
What is the solution to the government provided housing? Do we throw them all in jail for vagrancy and provide housing, food, and healthcare that way? Do we throw them out into the streets with the homeless crowd? That won't cost society anything. Do we execute them so they won't be a burden? Is some magical charity going to take care of them all? Maybe the one that is going to cover the healthcare of 100 million people will be willing to take care of the poor as well.
I do understand how the free market works and I do understand freedom. The free market does not guarantee that you pay a fair price for goods and services especially when competitors agree to charge the same price for goods and services like they do in healthcare. I also understand that when you participate in a civilized society you surrender some freedoms and you don't always get a choice in everything that you have to pay for. Having to pay into things like healthcare and education even if you don't want to is the cost of living in a civilized society. There isn't a modern country on this planet where that is not the case.
You do have the option of moving to some third world country and disappear. Alaska is another option. You can disappear there pretty easily as well.
What are you going to do if something happens to you or your son and you end up with medical bills that you can't afford to pay? That person I mentioned who had the $2million medical bill from heart surgery. It was not the result of poor life choices. Apparently, he was born with some heart condition that he had to deal with when he got older. I don't understand exactly what happened but for some reason, he ended up paralyzed from the waist down from the surgery. Apparently, its not unusual. It was not permanent but will take years before he can walk on his own again. In addition to the surgery, he spent a month in the ICU and another couple months in the hospital. He has to get someone to take him in for therapy on a weekly basis. I have not talked to him in a while but the last I heard his medical bills were up around $2.5 million. If that happens to you, are you going to just write a check, put it on a credit card, or maybe put it on a payment plan? Its kind of funny. The brother of a friend of mine who is very conservative made a statement that left me in shock a couple of years ago. He said obamacare saved his life. I about fell out of my chair. In one year he had to have heart surgery and knee surgery and his medical bills for that year were around $900,000. Funny how people will bash things right up until they need it and then they don't hesitate to use it.
Last edited:
i might have brough this up or someone else has. but another thing that would save money is some accountability on the population. the last figure i saw was 40-45% of americans are obese. obesity leads to all sorts of other health issues. there's no incentive to eat right and be healthy. people wait until they get lung cancer to stop smoking. or wait until they have a heart attack and then decide not to eat at mcdonalds everyday. no need to not drink a case of beer everyday, i'll just go get a new liver when mine quits.
i dont know what the answer is, but i believe that free markets and competition are most always good things. the less government involvement in our lives, the better. i dont see anything changing because our elected officials are regulating the business making tons of money off of investing or donations from pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies.
I can tell you after 25+ years in practice that even with lung cancer or a heart attack or cirrhosis, patients rarely change their habits.
If it's 1 in 10 I would be surprised.
i dont doubt that at all.
snox801
Well-Known Member
Jim your basic lack of understanding is shocking and scary.
You brought up the Pepsi and coke thing not me my argument was rc cola was a viable options. Scroll up and try to retain a previous post.
Second I do understand a bit about it because of my mother. The fact I got to listen to how things were done and issues they faced on a nightly basis during family dinner. Same with my father. He was a builder and amazing successful business man. I followed in his footsteps and learned a lot. So no I didn't learn everything but more than most.
Simple answer for homeless yes let them sleep on the streets. Not my responsibility to make sure someone else is taken care of only me and my family. Bleeding heart will bleed you dry.
Again you are framing it as cruel because of the way I want to let people support them self's. But you don't seem to see the cruelty in making me work and taking my money from my family to support people that won't be responsible.
Glad you brought up house. Most our housing issues are caused by government, the same government you want to screw up healthcare. I juts built a house the amount of red tape and money I spent for permits and inspections for I house I built, on land I own for my family. Cost me thousands extra. Why can't someone build what they want.
Cheaply.
It's all down to freedom of choice and you are clearly not for that.
You want someone to take care of you and do it by forcing the productive to take care of non productive people.
Honestly seem like a socialist country would indeed be a better fit for you than TN.
If I found a country that lined up with my beliefs better than US I'm sure I would move.
Please keep in mind I have no issues with you sir I'm sure you are a fine fellow and we would have more in common than not.
But I will never be convinced of taking from someone who doesn't agree to give to another.
I may indeed one day draw from your said system. Or I should at least be able to opt out of it and possibly not be able to get health care. But is should always be my choice not yours or anyone else's by force.
You brought up the Pepsi and coke thing not me my argument was rc cola was a viable options. Scroll up and try to retain a previous post.
Second I do understand a bit about it because of my mother. The fact I got to listen to how things were done and issues they faced on a nightly basis during family dinner. Same with my father. He was a builder and amazing successful business man. I followed in his footsteps and learned a lot. So no I didn't learn everything but more than most.
Simple answer for homeless yes let them sleep on the streets. Not my responsibility to make sure someone else is taken care of only me and my family. Bleeding heart will bleed you dry.
Again you are framing it as cruel because of the way I want to let people support them self's. But you don't seem to see the cruelty in making me work and taking my money from my family to support people that won't be responsible.
Glad you brought up house. Most our housing issues are caused by government, the same government you want to screw up healthcare. I juts built a house the amount of red tape and money I spent for permits and inspections for I house I built, on land I own for my family. Cost me thousands extra. Why can't someone build what they want.
Cheaply.
It's all down to freedom of choice and you are clearly not for that.
You want someone to take care of you and do it by forcing the productive to take care of non productive people.
Honestly seem like a socialist country would indeed be a better fit for you than TN.
If I found a country that lined up with my beliefs better than US I'm sure I would move.
Please keep in mind I have no issues with you sir I'm sure you are a fine fellow and we would have more in common than not.
But I will never be convinced of taking from someone who doesn't agree to give to another.
I may indeed one day draw from your said system. Or I should at least be able to opt out of it and possibly not be able to get health care. But is should always be my choice not yours or anyone else's by force.
snox801
Well-Known Member
Crazy we are so unhealthy me included but it's amazing we have that option. Free will is amazing and sad all at the same time
