Long Range thick skin bullets

[sp6x6]

I shot a 52'' MT moose with my 340 Wby,100 yrd offhand took out top of heart,bull took 3 steps and bedded down,then his head went down. I have been shooting 300hybrid otm in my 338 NM for a few years now. So not alot of kills but son was using also,way overkill for the hand full of speed goats we shot,but liked it for bucking wind,blew big holes in them out to 800+.I only shot one bull so far with same and it was in alders at 50 yrsd.I hit him high in lung just under backstrap and exit was as big as my fist,Im average size at 5-9.The blood trail high on trees was unreal, bull ran out about 60-70 yrds slight down, then pitched off a 20 foot cliff,that didnt help him either as it broke rack in half.I shot this bullet threw the large knuckle of the elk above hind quarter as a test and it blew bone into 3 piece, also had it wired to OSB and it punched a 5-6'' hole in osb at 200 yrd.This round is set up for both my Normas

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Bull____. Too funny! Must work for Berger...

I wish I hate my job, but I suspect working with bullets requires a strong background in mathematics and that one thing I am not good at at all.

 

[D.Camilleri]

To the original poster, you said the hits were from back of the rib cage angled forward. Did either of the two shots that we fired at that location hit the stomach? The reason I ask is that I have seen stomach contents stop many a good bullet far short of normal penetration. Wet dense vegetation in the stomach cavity is very hard to over come from an expanding bullet. Maybe we need someone to do a penetration test into a test media on the 250 gr Berger and compare it to some other bullets for a good comparision. Also testing the bullets at several different velocities would help to determine whether penetration would be better at longer ranges with less expansion.

 

[elkaholic]

To the original poster, you said the hits were from back of the rib cage angled forward. Did either of the two shots that we fired at that location hit the stomach? The reason I ask is that I have seen stomach contents stop many a good bullet far short of normal penetration. Wet dense vegetation in the stomach cavity is very hard to over come from an expanding bullet. Maybe we need someone to do a penetration test into a test media on the 250 gr Berger and compare it to some other bullets for a good comparision. Also testing the bullets at several different velocities would help to determine whether penetration would be better at longer ranges with less expansion.

This is correct. Stomach contents are mostly water and water, as I have posted previously, will cause a bullet to expand rapidly. Not everyone believes this, but I have done this literally hundreds of times with a lot of different bullets...........Rich

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

This is correct. Stomach contents are mostly water and water, as I have posted previously, will cause a bullet to expand rapidly. Not everyone believes this, but I have done this literally hundreds of times with a lot of different bullets...........Rich

they did that on myth busters they exploded fast
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSTuLIjRm8]Mythbusters Shooting 50 Caliber Sniper into Water - YouTube[/ame]

 

[elkaholic]

they did that on myth busters they exploded fast
Mythbusters Shooting 50 Caliber Sniper into Water - YouTube

There you go! This is why I have been trying to convince people that "if want to find out if a bullet is capable of expanding" use water! Sure you could use armour plate, but we are talking being realistic here. I hope everyone watches this and takes it to heart. Someone on the forum once proclaimed how tough his bullet was by shooting it into wood. You can do this and keep a bullet intact with almost any bullet because the pressure "outside" the bullet keeps it from completely blowing up and keeps the momentum forward. I have turned Bergers, my own, and others, into confetti many times by simply firing them into water. I have NO DOUBT" that stomach contents would do the same thing with a thin skinned bullet traveling at 2900', or considerably less for that matter......rich

 

[stenger]

This might help

 

[Pdvdh]

Holy Moly! The .338 250gr OTM is the ultimate impact side meat shredder! Thought you said he shot a bull? That moose hasn't even been weaned...

Tee Hee

 

[Toptuna]

could this be why?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKbbuZDPw80]Long Range 101 Part 70 - Aerodynamic Stability - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Fiftydriver]

This is exactly my point from an earlier post. EVERYBODY should not be shooting EVERYTHING with Bergers. The guys who have good success with them know what they are doing and probably would not take a shot like that. Also, this probably belongs on another thread but it still comes down to the common sense issue. I am just as concerned about the other extreme, and that is, shooting beyond the expansion limits of a bullet.....Rich

I agree 100%.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Back to where we have been many times over with most bullet discussions. There is no perfect bullet for all applications or shot distances. Like I have said before, know how your bullet of choice works best, then use it to the best advantages for your application.

I am not reading all this thread, I have heard most of it all before. But has the question been asked if these bullets were pointed or tip modified in any way?

Jeff

Have not read anything about tipping them and pretty sure the meplats were not modified. At least do not remember reading anything about that.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Wow, I can not believe the OP and others are still arguing for bullet failure? Really guys really, its a target bullet not a hunting bullet, fact is the OPs buddy is lucky he even got the animal at all, not only did the bullet perform, it performed above and beyond what it was designed for, the title of the thread should be change to "WOW BERGER WOW!

I still do not understand the title of this post anyway. It has nothing to do with long range hunting. Should have been called, "Close Range Hard Impact on MOOSE, made a bad decision on bullet choice, SORRY BERGER!!!"

 

[Fiftydriver]

they did that on myth busters they exploded fast
Mythbusters Shooting 50 Caliber Sniper into Water - YouTube

I see they found the jacket, where did the mild steel penetrator core go???? The jackets on the AP 50 cals is going to come off easily by design, its the steel penetrator that will keep going or at least tumble for some distance.....

Also, their claims on velocity and bullet weight are not true. Likely, if this was an AP round, the bullet weight was likely 692 to 708 gr. It did not look like an AP, looked like an M33 ball which is generally 647 gr in most cases.

I also assume they were shooting surplus ammo as I am pretty sure they did not tool up to reload the 50 BMG ammo. In that case, they were likely driving that bullet to around 2600 fps out of the AR-50. Just some additional information.

It is true however, water is a great challenge to most expanding bullets, especially the faster they are moving and the larger diameter they are.

 

[Pdvdh]

I still do not understand the title of this post anyway. It has nothing to do with long range hunting. Should have been called, "Close Range Hard Impact on MOOSE, made a bad decision on bullet choice, SORRY BERGER!!!"

This Thread reports a hunter's experience: A guy shot an Alaskan bull moose with three .338 250gr Berger OTM bullets and these bullets failed to perform satisfactorily, in the opinion of both the shooter and his guide. We were provided some useful details on the circumstances of bullet use.

I appreciate the posting of this, and similar, user experience(s). Forum members can now digest this user report and decide whether or not this bullet is suitable for their own uses.

The OP stated that he selected this Berger bullet "in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC", compared to the Barnes bullets. The OP knew that this bullet was advertised as having a thicker jacket than the 250gr Match Grade Elite Hunter, which Berger does advertise for hunting use. He states the 250 OTM was used "specifically for the thicker jacket".

He was using barnes bullets but we switched bullets for this hunt in an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC. I am writing this with twenty years of reloading and long range hunting experience. I think berger makes an outstanding bullet but I wanted to pass on the info so this does not happen to anyone else. Just might want to re-think using a berger on moose. If it works for you then shoot away. The bullet was a 250 OTM used specifically for the thicker jacket.

This explains the portion of the Thread title - 'Long Range thick skin bullets!'. Long Range = "an attempt to gain a little more accuracy and BC". "thick skin bullets" = the OTM bullets have thicker jackets than the Berger 250gr Elite Hunter bullet. The rest of the Thread title 'Bergers failed' reflects the shared opinion of both the hunter and his guide, of this bullet's performance on the bull moose.

The OP never claimed the three shots constituted long range hunting, and neither does the Thread title.