Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[Gord0]

Interesting post at 6.5 Creedmoor site by a member living in Alaska, he lists results he has had with his 6.5 Creed. He apparently missed the memo that the Creedmoor was not enough rifle for Long Range Hunting
He was using 143 ELD-X @ 2850 fps, shot was a bit over 865 yards on Griz

http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=7881.0

Now that I take issue with. It's like people using a too small of a cartridge on deer. Except a wounded grizz will kill you or anyone else it runs into. Will it kill them, sure! Just as dead as a .22 lr to the head... He admitted to wounding the grizz on the first shot, but fortunately took out the back legs. Had it not they would have been chasing a wounded grizz which is no fun in most people's books. Then there's the possibility of someone else coming across a bear you've wounded...

 

[MudRunner2005]

Interesting post at 6.5 Creedmoor site by a member living in Alaska, he lists results he has had with his 6.5 Creed. He apparently missed the memo that the Creedmoor was not enough rifle for Long Range Hunting
He was using 143 ELD-X @ 2850 fps, shot was a bit over 865 yards on Griz

http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=7881.0

Yeah, I just don't really believe that was his best (smartest) cartridge option for that kill...

To put it on a scale, that's about like shooting a deer with a .22 Magnum... Sure, it'll kill it, but is it ethical, and how quick & clean will it actually kill, if you don't happen to hit the CNS...

 

[MudRunner2005]

Now that I take issue with. It's like people using a too small of a cartridge on deer. Except a wounded grizz will kill you or anyone else it runs into. Will it kill them, sure! Just as dead as a .22 lr to the head... He admitted to wounding the grizz on the first shot, but fortunately took out the back legs. Had it not they would have been chasing a wounded grizz which is no fun in most people's books. Then there's the possibility of someone else coming across a bear you've wounded...

****, I didn't even read your post before I posted, but it's good to see someone else seeing the same issues with that scenario.

 

[Bowfishn]

Luckily no one has ever had to put a follow up shot on a Griz with a 7mm Mag, 308, 300 win mag or 338

 

[Bravo 4]

Luckily no one has ever had to put a follow up shot on a Griz with a 7mm Mag, 308, 300 win mag or 338

You sir are correct!
However I think that is their point. If the bigger more powerful cartridges don't always get the desired results then why go smaller. I don't know the situation or care to read the thread, all I'll say is to each his own. I just tend to think/plan for worse case scenario.

 

[Bowfishn]

When I was much younger I took a small 200 lb Male Black Bear that Sq over 6' by a few inches with a 22lr Handgun, one shot dead in it's tracks, distance less than one yard. I guess shot placement was not a problem considering my barrel was touching his head.
Myself if I had a chance to hunt large game would use my 30-06 and I would not shoot further than 400-500 yards. As I said my Sako Finnbear launches 165 Accubonds at 3100 fps, years ago that was Factory 300 Win Mag velocities, add 200 fps for handloads.
I would use 200 gr Nosler AB or most likely Partitions @ 2800 fps a velocity easily obtained with RL26 and with limited yardage BC is not as important. Are there bigger more powerful cartridges I could use, yes, would I feel under gunned, No.

The Guy that ran the D.O.P.E. on the shot that took the Grizzly is a resident who grew up in Alaska and had taken a few bears over the years and I am sure he knows what it will take to put one down. Even the 222 Rem and 223 have been used by some Native residents to take down Bears. Large Magnum Calibers tend to make some less cautious of shot placement, relying on the extra power to do the job.

 

[MudRunner2005]

You sir are correct!
However I think that is their point. If the bigger more powerful cartridges don't always get the desired results then why go smaller. I don't know the situation or care to read the thread, all I'll say is to each his own. I just tend to think/plan for worse case scenario.

Precisely! Do I need to hunt Alabama whitetail deer with a 7mm RemMag? No, all those years of hunting them with a .30-30 Win, 7mm-08, and .308 Win. did just fine...But I like the flat trajectory, and it kills like Zeus' lightning bolt.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I've seen deer soak up some unbelievable hits from a 7mm rem mag. I don't think the 7mm mag kills them any faster than any other short action milder cartridge. Only extra thing the 7mm mag does is it blows bigger holes which definitely adds a "splat factor"

 

[Bravo 4]

I agree Creedmore, the only solidly hit deer I've ever "lost" were two well place shots from a 7mag with deer quality bullets. Not the fault of anything other than luck, I spoke of this a couple weeks back in a post. Everything used was more than adequate. What the bigger cartridges do offer is more down range performance. Of the past few years one of my favorite closer range deer cartridges is a .243 with 95 grain ballistic tips.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Bravo, I 100% agree. I don't need a 7mm mag but I wanted one lol. Here in NH I've never had to make a shot over 250 yards at a deer. I use my 7mm mag for a lighter weight carry rifle and for tracking/still hunting when the perfect shot isn't always available. That's when the power of that magnum comes in handy. However, the little 6.5 creed has quickly become my favorite deer/bear cartridge for my distances. Does a fantastic job.

 

[midnightmalloy]

One thing to think about is to talk about bullets vs just caliber or cartridges. Easiest example, since the 7mm Rem Mag has been brought up, is launching a 120-140 gr bullet at a deer and launching a 175-195 gr bullet will have very different results. Also bullet construction and how that bullet performs on game is more important to me than speed. If someone is saying that a certain cartridge has certain results I will always ask "what bullet, what range and what type of documented hit!"

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I shoot 162 out of mine because that's what my twist allows. My wife shot her first deer with my 7mm mag. 162 amax @3050ish fps. Hit the deer at 80 yards. Bullet grenaded on impact but we had a small exit which is assume was the very base of the bullet. Turned the Insides to mush I've never seen such devastating terminal performance. That deer still took off and ran 80 yards before expiring. I still shake my head in disbelief. It was a 165 lb 8 point. Now I'm launching a 162 eld-match at 3115. Should get the job done

 

[Bowfishn]

One thing to think about is to talk about bullets vs just caliber or cartridges. Easiest example, since the 7mm Rem Mag has been brought up, is launching a 120-140 gr bullet at a deer and launching a 175-195 gr bullet will have very different results. Also bullet construction and how that bullet performs on game is more important to me than speed. If someone is saying that a certain cartridge has certain results I will always ask "what bullet, what range and what type of documented hit!"

You got that right, you want the right bullet for what you are hunting. Extreme high speed out of some magnums with bullets designed to open up at much lower speeds will result in superficial wounds that don't get into the vitals. I remember a writer in one of the rags I read about 40 years ago was talking about a Brown Bear hunt he did in Alaska with his 44 mag handgun loaded with 240 grain Jacketed HP Bullets. They got to the cabin and that evening a Brown broke through the door to get at the food. He put 6 shots point blank range into the side of the bear and did not even slow it down, the Guide ended up shooting it with his 375 H&H. When they skinned it, not one of the 6 shots made it through the skin and fat into the vitals. He had a portable loading set up, heavier bullets with thicker jackets and powder. He used the new load and took a much larger Bear with one shot.
I usually hunt with Scoped 44 mag handgun in the woods, I have a mold that I can cast 295 gr GCHP or 310 gr GCFN, 14 bhn bullets. I use the HP for Whitetail Deer and the Flat Nose for thicker skinned heavier boned.

 

[Bowfishn]

I've seen deer soak up some unbelievable hits from a 7mm rem mag. I don't think the 7mm mag kills them any faster than any other short action milder cartridge. Only extra thing the 7mm mag does is it blows bigger holes which definitely adds a "splat factor"

I have seen Bucks soak up a heart lung shot from a 30-06 with an exit hole I could put my fist in and still run a hundred yards before piling up and on the other hand I saw my Brother in law shoot a Buck at 75 yards in the heart with a 22 Mag rifle and the deer dropped dead in it's tracks. Depending on situation and the deers adrenaline as well as will to live. There is no certainty in the way the animal will react.