Comparison of Long Range Cartridges?

[bwaites]

Kirby, Thanks!!

I intially was looking for a .50, then decided I wanted to actually be able to CARRY the rifle.

That meant .338 from what I could see. I had about decided on a .338 Lapua, when I came across the .338 Edge. Not quite .50 performance, but close enough I could live with it.

Then I started hearing about your Magnum, and performance closer to the .50 than anything else.

Now I'm stuck! I don't hunt, but want the rifle to be mobile and light enough to carry, 15-17 pounds max. Hopefully I'll get to eyeball Shawns rifles next week, and that will help!

Bill

PS: Are the ballistics for each cartridge grouped together anywhere?

 

[Fiftydriver]

Bwaites,

Not that I am aware of is there a complete ballistic comparision between all these chamberings. Best thing to do is plug all the numbers into a ballistic calculator and compare the results side by side.

Got a couple pics taken this afternoon after working in the shop.

Left to right:

338 Edge loaded with 300 gr SMK to 3.820" OAL, 338 Lapua with 300 gr SMK, 338 Allen Xpress loaded with 300 gr SMK to 3.820" oal and finally the big girl, the 338 Allen Magnum loaded with new 265 gr AL RBBT to 4.450" oal.

You can see the dramatic case formation between the 338 Lapua and my 338 Allen Xpress, quite a significant increase in capacity. The Lapua and the 338 Edge have roughly the same capacity for comparision. You can also see that the 338 Allen Xpress can have the 300 gr SMK seated much shorter if you wanted to use something like an HS Precision detachable magazine system. The 338 Allen Mag is just big in every way, diameter, length and capacity!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just got the sake of taking pictures. Here is the standard 338 bullet along side the new advanced designs. From left to right, the 300 gr SMK, 265 gr AL RBBT Wildcat and a 270 gr solid brass projectile.

For those that think you can not use a lead core bullet design to compete with the solid bullets, you are now WRONG!!! The BC of the solid bullet is around .870. Early predicions for the 265 gr AL RBBT are right around .850 to .860.

But the lead core bullet can be driven to higher velocities then the solid and is MUCH more forgiving as far as bore to bore diameter variations and accuracy potential. Not to mention, the solid will not expand, the 265 gr tipped bullet certainly will.

You will notice a line between the tip and the start of the jacket on these bullets. That is because I had Richard make me up some bullets with very heavy jackets and as such, the tip step down was not made to match so Richard had to set the tips in this position so there would not be a protruding lip from the thicker jackets. They are smooth from tip to jacket now, just have this slight gap, will make no difference accuracy wise.

Richard has already addressed this issue for his next order of tips.

Compared to the 300 gr SMK, well, there is no comparision really. It is a great bullet but I personally feel the 265 gr AL RBBT pretty much makes it obsolete as far as ballistic performance is concerned.

Good Shooting

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Hired Gun]

Where does the 338 Kahn fall into this mix?

 

[davewilson]

Kirby, 3 questions, is that a lost river solid?

#2, i've heard from some experienced long range hunters that the aluminum tipped bullets from Hornady were great until you'd get a flyer. the aluminum tips would occasionally work loose and cause a real bad flier. ammo used for hunting generally sees a little bumping around, even the bullets themselves get a little bumping/shuffling around before loading.don't claim to know anything about making boolits, but was wondering if these tips will stay where they're supposed to?

and last, my understanding is that a hollow point will go through the air easier. better than a sharp point will. i assume he has a sharp point because of ease of manufacturing/cost or something to do with the whole process of getting tips made. why not a hollow point or a little flat on the tip for a higher BC?

 

[Fiftydriver]

Capacity wise about 10 grains more then my 338 Allen Xpress. Performance wise, just slightly more or the same as my AX due to its ability handle much higher chamber pressures. Realistically though, slightly more then my AX. Probably around 50 fps at most however.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

#1. Nope, and I can not say hoes they are because they were sent to me to be tested in my 338 AM and I was asked to keep most of the specifics quiet so thats about all I can say at this time.

#2. I have shot ALOT of the Hornady 750 gr A-Max bullets and while loose tips early on was a slight issue, I have not seen that problem in the last 5 years or so so its pretty much a non issue. As far as the Wildcat Bullets. There have been some loose tips and Richard is learning as he builds these things. Checked all the bullets I just got from Richard and none were loose at all.

Personally, my long range hunting ammo is carried in ammo boxes in a pack on my back so they are pretty well protected so I am not to concerned about then working loose in this way.

#3. Actually, a Hollow point is much easier to form up and as far as slipping through the air better or worse, Not sure about that, have a hard time believing a HP will be more efficent then this type of bullet. Just for example, all the solid VLD type bullets have much higher BCs then any HP bullet, even of same design so while I do not know for sure, it does not make sense to me that a HP would offer better ballistic potential???

Every BC predicting program in the world asks for a meplate diameter and in every case I have played with, the larger the meplat, the lower the BC, in fact this is one of the major players in BC. Even uniforming the meplate HP will decrease BC.

That said, I am not an expert here but I will soon be able to tell you which shoots flatter!!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[bwaites]

Kirby,

That helps alot, both the pictures and the info!!

I'm learning a lot, so keep it up guys!!

Bill

 

[davewilson]

50, have heard from a sierra tech and others that a very small mushroom type air pocket in front of the tip will actually let a bullet go through the air a little easier.also a hollow point seems to work better than a small flat.don't know if this is true but again, have heard this from more than one.Bruce Baer was telling me this very thing about 2 weeks ago.

i'm sure everyone carries their ammo in a protective case or something but when you're hunting, things tend to get bumped around a little.

as for those solids,they just look good.almost like they should speed up as they go!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

Funny you make that comment about the solids and not Richards bullet. THE only difference between the two is that the solid has a slightly longer BT length.

Baring surface is basically identical between the two, Ogive is exactly the same design and length of nose is identical as well and both have the same needle point meplat. Again, other then one has a Rebatted Boattail and the other has a conventional BT design, they are basically the same externally dimensioned bullet.

Maybe the two tone color on Richards make them look slower??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Personally, as far as consistancy and usibility with many different barrels, there will be no comparision between the two, Richards will be a dramatically superior bullet in my opinion and also usible for use on big game as well.

As far as the Sierra Ballistics personel, I have alot of faith in them for conventional calibers used in conventional rounds. But to be blunt, most commercial bullet makers have little if any knowledge dealing with the class of rounds we are here.

Bruce Baer on the other hand does and I would respect his opinion greatly.

It may be of interest for you that the next batch of tipped bullets will have tips with a very slight flat on them. Not for ballistic reasons but for safety. Richard has almost ran these tips right into his hand before and yes they will punch skin very easily with little pressure needed!!!

I found this out as well. Dropped one and caught it in my hand, tip broke the skin in the palm of my hand!!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[huntinco]

Fiftydriver....
Could you email or send me info on your .338AM [email protected]
Thanks
Justin

 

[Down Under Hunter]

Just another point I forgot to mention that you may want to think about. Do you need a repeater ? If you do, the pool to choose from with the edge will be much deeper than the 408 based rounds that seem to have a very ltd number of actions that will perform as a repeater ?

Just my 2 cents worth from 6 months of questions and answers.

Good luck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Fiftydriver]

DUH,

That is true!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Justin,

E-mail sent. Sorry for the delay, missed this one before LRH went down.

Kirby Allen(50)