Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[MudRunner2005]

We should probably throw in real world velocities with the 147 ELD-M out of a 10BA Stealth 6.5 Creedmoor with a 24" barrel and not the Hornady Factory. I see we are not using 308 factory rounds.
I got almost 2900 fps with load testing for accuracy and ES, but settled on the load that averaged 2850 fps as a fast miss does not count.
So you should move your starting point up 155 fps for the Creed.
I am not the only one that does not use Hornady Factory Ammo.

I have not seen multiple people claiming 2,900 FPS with a 147gr bullet in the CM with a 24" barrel... Although some barrels are slower and some are faster than others, that seems a good bit above the normal 147 velocities. You're almost into .260 AI territory, which leads me to believe either you are almost to the point of case failure, or your rifle is a freak of nature. There have been many people averaging 2,500 FPS (usually above 2,500) with the 215 Hybrid in a 24" .308 Win. So I'm actually degrading the .308 Win performance somewhat.

Anyone can shove a random number into a calculator and get their desired result. You have to be as honest and unbiased as you can.

As you saw, my numbers did not favor the .308 for anything, except energy. But I did say it was going to be close, and it is.

Even though it was not the winner, it was still a close and unbiased comparison.

 

[Bowfishn]

I will go one better I will use Bergers published load on the 135 Classic Hunter for the 6.5 Creedmoor, I had to run the figures with about 1810' elevation to match your 308 215 Berger chart. I don't know what temp you were using so it's not exact.
6.5 Creedmoor 135 Classic Hunter .584 bc @ 2977 fps
100 yards 2830 fps 2401 ft/lb Drop -0.00 Drift 0.25
1000 Yard 1685 fps 851 ft/lb Drop -255.85 Drift 29.58
2000 yards 961 fps 277 ft/lb Drop -1950.90 Drift 162.48
Don't blame me it's a listed load of Bergers.

 

[Bowfishn]

You're not hearing because your not listening, or I guess I should say you are not seeing because you are not looking, you are from Missouri aren't you. I am not the only one doing it and I suppose Berger is also just throwing numbers around to equal what they want?
2890 fps with 147's out of a 24" is running up towards the top of the 6.5 Creed pressure, 2850 fps is down mush lower. I was hoping to get 2880 fps with good accuracy and ES as that is 50 fps down from the 2930 fps I shoot them from my 26" barrel with good accuracy and ES.
Just would not shoot as well at the higher vel. so as I said I settled on 2850 fps. My mag is short and distance to the lands does not allow for seating very long, my other 26" is on a long action, that is most likely why I could not do as well within 50 fps of the 26"

 

[Bowfishn]

Faster barrel mean higher pressure and slower means lower pressure with same load, if it is screaming way over book velocity or QL calculations it is most likely high pressure and it needs to be dropped down.
My barrel was actually slow with H4350 verses what others were getting with same load, RL26 is just a powder that gives higher velocities in a lot of over bores with about the case capacity of a 243 win. It has also proved well with other larger cartridges.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Faster barrel mean higher pressure and slower means lower pressure with same load, if it is screaming way over book velocity or QL calculations it is most likely high pressure and it needs to be dropped down.
My barrel was actually slow with H4350 verses what others were getting with same load, RL26 is just a powder that gives higher velocities in a lot of over bores with about the case capacity of a 243 win. It has also proved well with other larger cartridges.

It appears you contradicted yourself. Take a look.

 

[MudRunner2005]

You're not hearing because your not listening, or I guess I should say you are not seeing because you are not looking, you are from Missouri aren't you. I am not the only one doing it and I suppose Berger is also just throwing numbers around to equal what they want?
2890 fps with 147's out of a 24" is running up towards the top of the 6.5 Creed pressure, 2850 fps is down mush lower. I was hoping to get 2880 fps with good accuracy and ES as that is 50 fps down from the 2930 fps I shoot them from my 26" barrel with good accuracy and ES.
Just would not shoot as well at the higher vel. so as I said I settled on 2850 fps. My mag is short and distance to the lands does not allow for seating very long, my other 26" is on a long action, that is most likely why I could not do as well within 50 fps of the 26"

Am I from Missouri? Ummm, nope. I'm about 600 miles southeast of there...Alabama.

 

[WildRose]

I too shoot the 215 in a 308 Win. H4350 gets me up to 2479 fps with good es/sd. Not as fast as the RE-17 but doesn't shift with temps.

You might want to give RL-19 a try. My .260's are really eating it up with the 140-147gr bullets as well as the Peregrine 136's.

Wife and I ran into a coyote sitting in the middle of a field last night on the way out to finish chores at a hair better than 700yds. He made it about 30yds before cratering from the lung/liver shot and a 142gr Nosler ABLR.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I believe I could Move a 215 much faster than 2500 from the 308 also. Just tried keeping it close to factory load spec.

 

[codyadams]

I believe I could Move a 215 much faster than 2500 from the 308 also. Just tried keeping it close to factory load spec.

I'm getting 2525 fps from my 20" Savage with 215's using Lapua brass, br-2 primers and reloder 17, seated to 2.985" OAL, and have 3 loads on this brass so far. However, I wouldn't expect this from an average 20" 308. My 20" Remington pressured out at 2500 fps, giving me an ejector mark and stiff bolt lift, best accuracy and safe pressure was around 2440. This savage barrel, using the same components, didn't pressure out until 2570.

I'll tell ya what though, that light rifle (under 8 lbs) pushing those 215's at 2525 without a brake sure lets ya know something is going on....and it is an awesome compact elk brush buster.

 

[Bowfishn]

VLD Pilot
2500 fps with a 215 Berger Hyb. is 70 fps over Bergers load data for that bullet with a 24" tube, Berger shows COAL of 2.810
H414 Max Load 42 gr @ 2373 fps
RL17 Max Load 42.3 @ 2431 fps
QL shows
H414 42 gr @ 2384 fps / 54,783 psi
43.8 gr @ 2470 fps / 61,943 psi Max for Design 62K
RL17 42.3 gr @ 2447 fps / 54,427 psi
43.8 gr @ 2514 fps / 61,552 psi Max for Design 62K
2500 fps is pretty much it for a 24" without going over Industry standard for the 308 win., you will gain a bit more 10 fps by seating longer
COAL 2.860"
RL17 44.5 gr @ 2525 fps / 61,687 psi
26" tube gets you to 2660 fps

 

[Bowfishn]

I'm getting 2525 fps from my 20" Savage with 215's using Lapua brass, br-2 primers and reloder 17, seated to 2.985" OAL, and have 3 loads on this brass so far. However, I wouldn't expect this from an average 20" 308. My 20" Remington pressured out at 2500 fps, giving me an ejector mark and stiff bolt lift, best accuracy and safe pressure was around 2440. This savage barrel, using the same components, didn't pressure out until 2570.

I'll tell ya what though, that light rifle (under 8 lbs) pushing those 215's at 2525 without a brake sure lets ya know something is going on....and it is an awesome compact elk brush buster.

Seating that long gets you to that speed with over 47 gr RL17 depending on your lot #s BA @ about 65K pressure with that barrel length unless you are running a can on it. A can usually gets you a bit more speed so if that's the case you may be under 65K
You won't see signs of pressure but watch out for high temps or other variables that could increase pressure.
Your load would get you just over 2600 fps with a 26" tube.

 

[Bowfishn]

I want to try Heavy 200+ in my 24" Sako Finnbear 30-06's with RL26 it looks like I can push 215 Berger Hyb to 2700 fps without much problem @ 61K
and 210 Hunt VLDs to 2750 fps at same pressure HBN coated for both.
I will do some testing in the spring.

 

[codyadams]

Seating that long gets you to that speed with over 47 gr RL17 depending on your lot #s BA @ about 65K pressure with that barrel length unless you are running a can on it. A can usually gets you a bit more speed so if that's the case you may be under 65K
You won't see signs of pressure but watch out for high temps or other variables that could increase pressure.
Your load would get you just over 2600 fps with a 26" tube.

Ya, I have heard Reloder 17 is a little sensative to temps. When I tested my loads, it was 60ish degrees, so unless I use these loads on a hot day in the summer (high 80's to low 90's) as these are elk hunting loads, I should be ok.

Also I have heard that Berger gets all their data in the books from quickload, which I have heard is very accurate, I myself have never used it, but I believe most of their data is not actually fired through a test rifle. Not saying it is inaccurate at all, just making a data point.

 

[Bowfishn]

Ya, I have heard Reloder 17 is a little sensative to temps. When I tested my loads, it was 60ish degrees, so unless I use these loads on a hot day in the summer (high 80's to low 90's) as these are elk hunting loads, I should be ok.

Also I have heard that Berger gets all their data in the books from quickload, which I have heard is very accurate, I myself have never used it, but I believe most of their data is not actually fired through a test rifle. Not saying it is inaccurate at all, just making a data point.

From what their website says they use actual firing and software to arrive at the loads, that answers why the data for 135 Classic Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor is spot on to what QL says. I think Berger has done enough testing to know if it is accurate or not, I trust them.