Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[MudRunner2005]

Yep! Some new guy on here the other week called me "dangerous" for trying to get the most out of my rifles...Which yes, includes velocity. It's called LR hunting, don't we all want to get the most out of our rifles? Why would you own a .300WM and run it at .30-06 or .308 Win velocities (unless you have a medical issue), it defeats the purpose of having the .300WM. I don't always run every gun wide-open all the time. Yes, when I first get it built, I run them to find out what the cartridge/gun can handle, because most are wildcats, and every rifle/chamber is different. If I find my best accuracy node way up there, then so be it. But if I don't find an accuracy node way up there, I drop it back down and rework another ladder at lower charges to find my best accuracy node. It's always a good, and a safe thing to know where your wildcat cartridges start to show pressure signs.

 

[Bravo 4]

I can see where you are coming from with that. I decide on a certain cartridge base off of what I expect the velocity to be with certain bullets (and with certain barrel lengths, as we are discussing in another thread). An example would be, as used in the other said thread, my .338 RUM. Be it a RUM or Lapua, most long range hunters want at least a 26" barrel to achieve higher velocity. However, take that long barrel and add the rather large suppressor that goes with large calibers and it can get ridiculous quick.
I though my buddy was nuts going 20" on his .300, but it still outdoes a 30-06 and carries better.
As stated, trade offs for everything.

 

[dana bodnar]

The term "as good as" is all a matter of opinion and personal conjecture. Factory ammo and brass are also a hell of a lot more for the .257 Wby. Also, barrel life is shorter for the Weatherby due to more powder capacity (longer concentrated burn) which fire-cracks and burns up the throat quicker.

They all have their pros and cons. Speed comes at a price and so does greater case capacity for the same diameter neck.

Well said MudRunner

 

[dana bodnar]

Good post! Being primarily a LR hunter, I have tended to focus my attention on optimizing three priorities balanced out to be effective over the distance I intend to shoot.
-accuracy
-terminal performance of the bullet
-wind drift
While I strive to achieve the highest velocity possible in a given cartridge, it may have to be traded off to achieve the best balance of these priorities.

-

Good point Greyfox, Alot of shooters will always tend to develop the hottest load they get a decent group with not thinking about how their are alot of variables on temperatures of gun powder and how they react. Alot of hunters and hand loaders develop loads in the off season during the summer and then go hunting with them in the winter and you could have 60 or 70% temperature change ? I i'am guilty of doing the same thing in the past. I have had more than 2 or 3 loads fall apart do to bringing them to the edge of the envelope just cause I have in my head for some reason that speed is better. I'am not trying to say that I like slow loads my point is I like contestant loads and repeat ability I strive as a good hand loader to take out as many variables as possible out of my loads. The proof is with your tape measure on your 1000 yard target. Brian Litz covers this in detail in his book and I must say his book is the best I have ever read in Advancements in long range shooting.

 

[dana bodnar]

I shoot what my Barrel likes and what gives me my best group. One of the first steps to becoming a good hand loader and and a guru of load development is to not fret about muzzle velocity. Fast is good only if it groups constantly over and over again.

 

[soundwaves]

many will disagree with me but l am against takeing shots at game beyond 500 yards. slight mistake and that animal gets woonded. thay feel pain too you know. l dont know about you but l dont see em as targets. thay are unbelivably beautiful animals that makes the hunter excited no mater how many you have shot.

 

[platella]

"A man's got to know his limitations," Clint Eastwood.

 

[dana bodnar]

many will disagree with me but l am against takeing shots at game beyond 500 yards. slight mistake and that animal gets woonded. thay feel pain too you know. l dont know about you but l dont see em as targets. thay are unbelivably beautiful animals that makes the hunter excited no mater how many you have shot.

One of the responsibilitys of long range hunting is alot of shooting out in the field in the rain and the wind and you should only shoot if you can consistantly group in the size kill zone of the animal you are harvesting, If you cant you need need to get closer or within your range this is proper hunting etiquette. Taking pot shots gives all of us a bad name and not fair to the animal and in my book is not the right thing to do.

 

[Greyfox]

many will disagree with me but l am against takeing shots at game beyond 500 yards. slight mistake and that animal gets woonded. thay feel pain too you know. l dont know about you but l dont see em as targets. thay are unbelivably beautiful animals that makes the hunter excited no mater how many you have shot.

IMO, I fully agree that we must give our quarry the highest level of respect. I also believe that one hunters 500 yard limit, can be another's 100 yard, or yet another's 1000 yard limit............

"A Man has to know his limitations"
-Harry Callahan

 

[WildRose]

I find longrange hunters to be far more considerate of the game we seek than the average hunter out there.

Most of us have spent more than a decade honing our skills and learning our own limitations and won't take a shot unless we're completely confident that in doing so we're going to make a quick, clean, humane kill.

Conversely I've seen far too many examples of people just flinging lead to "see if I can make it" among the "average hunter" crowd.

When I see guys who are convinced they are "sighted in" because they can hit a 12x16" piece of paper at 50-100yds at the range heading out to hunt it pretty well turns my stomach and I've seen a whole lot of them.

 

[Bravo 4]

many will disagree with me but l am against takeing shots at game beyond 500 yards. slight mistake and that animal gets woonded. thay feel pain too you know. l dont know about you but l dont see em as targets. thay are unbelivably beautiful animals that makes the hunter excited no mater how many you have shot.

You are right, I do disagree with you.
I do think everyone has limits based so several factors. Be it equipment (the 6.5 Creedmore comes to mind....just kidding I promise!), their personal experience, wind, condition/demeanor of animal, etc. There are times that I wouldn't attempt a 400 yard shot, there are times I would take a 1500 yard shot. I try to continue to push my own limits in training so that I'm ready for that one shot I may get on a hunting trip that I've spent all year(s) preparing for, obsessing over, working out like a mad man, driving 1200 miles and spent thousands of dollars on. Posting on a LR hunting site and setting what I would call mid range limits for others to follow could easily be considered trolling. However I don't think that's the intent here, you're just voicing your opinion and I can respect that. I think Greyfox nailed it, one man's 500 is another's 100. I believe I'm more capable of that 500 yard shot than 75% of other hunters are of said 100 yards. They don't care about it as I do.
The only folks I can think of that care about their shooting as much as I do are the serious bow hunters I know. They shoot 1,000s of times, maybe every month. Now Due to the fact that a deer will hear the noise of the bow before the arrow impacts, he can jump the string. I have heard this many times: "You gotta aim low on his body, shoot where he's going to be and not where he is". In essence saying shoot at a moving animal, or one you know could move. I've seen poor hits due to this at 20 yards with modern equipment. That doesn't mean we should set our limits to under that, should we? You may think so.
As for the animals, I enjoy watching them and care about injuring them needlessly or causing undo suffering. But on the contrary I do look at them as targets (and dinner), if not I would get so excited I would never hit anything.
Because trust me, I can get excited!

 

[okie man]

Me being a bow hunter primarily, I take pride in getting close to the animals I hunt. That said, I've spent hundreds of hours refining loads, tuning my guns and practicing out too what I consider long range. It was second nature to me when put a single bullet through the heart of this years buck at 425 yards! I've shots lots of coyotes , jackrabbits and rocks at much farther than that. But I don't recommend taking game at 300 plus yards to someone who hasn't put several hundreds of rounds through their gun in hunting conditions before trying such shots!

 

[ATH]

many will disagree with me but l am against takeing shots at game beyond 500 yards. slight mistake and that animal gets woonded. thay feel pain too you know. l dont know about you but l dont see em as targets. thay are unbelivably beautiful animals that makes the hunter excited no mater how many you have shot.

I'm perfectly fine and admire you having personal limits as long as you don't arbitrarily apply your opinion as a limitation to others.

1) 500 yards is a chip shot with several of my rifles unless the wind is extreme. Deer close in are more likely to spook than those further out; I typically find it easier to set up and patiently wait for the right shot at longer ranges than close in where the animal may suddenly become aware of my presence.
2) I absolutely-guarantee-you I view them as targets. I'm sending a bullet towards their vitals with the intent to kill them. I respect the animals, but they are a target to put a bullet in so I can put meat in the freezer to feed my family and other families in need of meat. I want to make the absolute best shot possible, I want it to be as perfect as possible and quick, but in the end, they ARE the target of a bullet.

 

[WildRose]

I'm perfectly fine and admire you having personal limits as long as you don't arbitrarily apply your opinion as a limitation to others.

1) 500 yards is a chip shot with several of my rifles unless the wind is extreme. Deer close in are more likely to spook than those further out; I typically find it easier to set up and patiently wait for the right shot at longer ranges than close in where the animal may suddenly become aware of my presence.
2) I absolutely-guarantee-you I view them as targets. I'm sending a bullet towards their vitals with the intent to kill them. I respect the animals, but they are a target to put a bullet in so I can put meat in the freezer to feed my family and other families in need of meat. I want to make the absolute best shot possible, I want it to be as perfect as possible and quick, but in the end, they ARE the target of a bullet.

One reason I like shooting directly into the wind is that at beyond 500 yards I can often drop an animal from the middle of herd and not have the rest even show the least bit of concern. If the wind is high enough even at 300yds they may just trot off or even keep on grazing.