Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[okie man]

Then you should shoot a 26" barreled .25-06 AI 40º... It will blow your mind how well it keeps up, but with even less recoil and muzzle blast.

But can I get one for under $600? lol.

 

[MudRunner2005]

But can I get one for under $600? lol.

If you already have an action and stock...Then yes. Buy a barrel, have it chambered, crowned, and installed.

 

[okie man]

After all that for something almost as good as the weatherby!

 

[okie man]

Just as a 30/06 ai is almost a 300 win mag. Almost! Haha

 

[MudRunner2005]

Just as a 30/06 ai is almost a 300 win mag. Almost! Haha

You joke, but my .30-06 AI 40º is pushing a Berger 185 VLD to right at 3,000 FPS MV from a 26" 1:12 barrel using IMR 7828 SSC (slower powder, lower pressures, compressed loads). That's not very far behind the .300WM.

 

[okie man]

But then again add 2-4 inches to the standard 300 win mag barrel and things change!

 

[MudRunner2005]

After all that for something almost as good as the weatherby!

The term "as good as" is all a matter of opinion and personal conjecture. Factory ammo and brass are also a hell of a lot more for the .257 Wby. Also, barrel life is shorter for the Weatherby due to more powder capacity (longer concentrated burn) which fire-cracks and burns up the throat quicker.

They all have their pros and cons. Speed comes at a price and so does greater case capacity for the same diameter neck.

 

[MudRunner2005]

But then again add 2-4 inches to the standard 300 win mag barrel and things change!

I'm comparing a 26" barrel for each cartridge, which is what you find most common on .300WM rifles. You have to compare equal factors to factor equal comparisons.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I'm comparing a 26" barrel for each cartridge, which is what you find most common on .300WM rifles. You have to compare equal factors to factor equal comparisons.

Equal pressure would be good also.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Equal pressure would be good also.

As long as nothing is showing signs of excess pressure (for both cartridges), I'd consider that a fair test. Book velocities are set to pressure specs... But your rifles might not be the same as the rifle's they test in the book... So in that respect, you have to test what you have available to you. It doesn't have to be that scientific, it just has to be fairly equal factors...Same bullet, same barrel length, no excess pressure signs, same chronograph, same conditions, etc...

Not everyone has or can afford a Pressure Trace II.

 

[WildRose]

WildRose, I haven't figured out that link thing yet, but the address is
Http:/riflebarrels.com/barrel-length-in-the-338378-weatherby-magnum/
Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Or just Google Dan Lilja barrel length vs. velocity, should get you close.
Gregg

Here's the link you're looking for.

http://riflebarrels.com/barrel-length-velocity-and-accuracy-question/

It's a good read and makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[WildRose]

Why is everyone so hung up on muzzle velocity on this thread ? shooting any caliber rifle to it's maxim speed will only prove 1 thing and that is how far you can go until you blow your face off. When I work up a custom load for my rifle with a powder test I start at the lower end of the powder and work my way up and the more powder I use the more I check my brass for signs of high pressure. The tighter the test cell group is telling me that's the speed my barrel likes and that is what you want to achieve. If I shoot a powder test and I get 2 really nice test groups 1 at an average speed and the other at the fastest speed in the book I would choose the average speed group because how temperatures affect powder, when you bring a custom load to the edge of the envelope that's exactly what you get a load that's always on the edge of screwing up your shot. Repeat-ability is the name of the game. Give your rifle what it likes not what you think it likes. A great source of information that we are all talking about here is in Brian Litz book I would have to say it's the best book on long range shooting and ballistics I have ever read and you can buy it here at the Long Range Hunting store.

Velocity matters which is why we keep producing new rounds pushing the same diameter bullets faster and faster and we can do so very safely.

More or less speed in a given case isn't necessarily going to be more or less accurate.

I've loaded for dozens of rifles over the last thirty or so years and each one of them seems to have a particular and different sweet spot velocity wise depending on a host of different factors but most importantly barrel length, powder choice, bullet type, and bullet weight.

I have yet to find any two exactly the same and none have been at their most accurate with either the fastest or slowest load I tried.

All else being equal, faster is flatter and hits with more energy so of course velocity matters.

 

[Greyfox]

Velocity matters which is why we keep producing new rounds pushing the same diameter bullets faster and faster and we can do so very safely.

More or less speed in a given case isn't necessarily going to be more or less accurate.

I've loaded for dozens of rifles over the last thirty or so years and each one of them seems to have a particular and different sweet spot velocity wise depending on a host of different factors but most importantly barrel length, powder choice, bullet type, and bullet weight.

I have yet to find any two exactly the same and none have been at their most accurate with either the fastest or slowest load I tried.

All else being equal, faster is flatter and hits with more energy so of course velocity matters.

Good post! Being primarily a LR hunter, I have tended to focus my attention on optimizing three priorities balanced out to be effective over the distance I intend to shoot.
-accuracy
-terminal performance of the bullet
-wind drift
While I strive to achieve the highest velocity possible in a given cartridge, it may have to be traded off to achieve the best balance of these priorities.

-

 

[Bravo 4]

I concur!
I think what he meant about folks chasing velocity is that they will use it as the main focus. They use a smaller/lighter usually lower BC projectile to get there and that can sacrifice LR performance. But then again LR for most folks is over 300 yards, so the point may be moot.
Velocity does a lot of things; like decreasing time of flight so environmentals have less effect, and is a major contributor to terminal performance. So, as stated by others, pair that velocity up with a high BC bullet and you can increase yours and your equipment's effective range. Like Kirby's motto says: faster, flatter, farther...
Like Greyfox said- it's a balancing act, and I think of it as a system.
And like mud said- there are trade offs to everything.