Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

....Also, where I hunt elk I don't want them to go somewhere even harder to pack out. From what I've seen an injured elk has a tendency to run down, that means I have to pack them up............

I'm all about recovering what I shoot. I've heard of them running towards the truck, but not experienced it.
Follow up is easier in some environments, than in others.
In some hunts a shoulder can be the only shot you get.
It can take a hell of a lot more bullet to reliably, repeatedly, make that shot work than some realize.
 
"I've shot two elk in the shoulder with a 300 WBY with 168 gr TSX that I got no penetration past the shoulder because the front of the bullet expands beyond what the weight can push it though."

I just re-read some of the posts and noticed this. I am absolutely amazed at your experience. Once I chronographed a guys .270 Winchester loads. His 3,000 feet per second load was loafing along at 2,200 feet per second. Perhaps you had the same thing with your lack of penetration. Years ago I switched from regular cup & core to partitions because I had that happen to me. Once I switched I never recovered a partition.
 
Also use the right load for your cartridge.
If I use my 165 gr Nosler BT bullets with my load of H205 powder in my 30-06 @ muzzle vel of 3100 fps (vel confirmed with MagnetoSpeed) out of a 24" barrel it is 2176 fps and 1739 ft lbs at 500 yards, 1448 fps and 770 ft lbs at 1000 yards.
If I switch to a 212 ELD-X according to QL using RL26 the same powder I use in my 6.5 Creedmoor that has always been spot on for projected loads with my lot of powder. It shows an obtainable vel at 58,093 psi of 2700 fps out of the 24" Barrel it will give me 2059 fps and 1995 ft lbs at 500 yards, 1508 fps and 1070 ft lbs at 1000 yards.
That compares to my 6.5 Creedmoor using my tested load of 143 ELD-X bullets and RL26 @ 2998 fps out of my 26" barrel giving me 2271 fps and 1637 ft lbs at 500 yards, 1655 fps and 870 ft lbs at 1000 yards.
At 500 the Creedmoor is close to the 165 gr 30-06 load but out does it at 1000, but not so with the 212 gr bullet out of the 06.
1000 yard 6.5 Creed 143 ELD-X, up moa 24" and R/L 5.8" moa drift 10 mph
1000 Yard 30-06 212 ELD-X, up moa 28" and R/L 6.3" moa drift 10 mph
And of coarse the 300 Win Mag will do it a bit further.
H205, didn't know
anyone is still using that
 
I scored an unopen 8 lb box of it a couple years ago a guy bought in the early 90's and had not used it because he sold his 06. I met the guy we opened the sealed box and then the bag. I smelled it and it was good, had not turned, I have smelled powder that has gone bad it is a real strong acidic ammonia smell about burns out your sinuses. It was my go to powder back in the late 70's and early 80's for my 06 until it was no longer available.
 
Does any bullet give better terminal performance than a Barnes TSX?
Depends on your idea of terminal performance.

Last year we spent a day and a half looking for a lungshot buck that my neighbor's daughter shot with a .243 TSX. After more than a mile of blood trail he just disappeared.

Bullet placement is the number one decider in most cases. Put even a 1/4" hole though the heart and nothing runs too far but if you aren't interrupting the CNS or major blood vessels animals can occasionally run a long ways before expiring.
 
Why mess with the Creedmoor or 300 win mage when you have a 7mm STW lobbing a 168gr ABLR over 83.5gr of Retumbo at 3305 fps or 7mm STW lobbing a 195gr Berger EOL over 78.2gr of Retumbo at 3075 fps and a 26 NOSLER lobbing a 142 gr ABLR over 81gr of Retumbo at 3510 fps! Pretty much covers the 0 to 1,200 yd spectrum for me. Just for the number checkers and QL quarrie'rs 29" barrels on both and velocities taken with magneto speed at 11,000 ft altitude in Colorado 25% humidity and 23 degrees F. Antelope taken at 1,183 ydsView attachment 80131 View attachment 80132 View attachment 80133
Well, that's what happens with an STW!
 
7mm STW & 26 Nosler are both great rounds in their own respects, but both run into practicality issues, IMO.

7mm STW ammo is hard to come by and brass is what I'd call scarce.
Similarly, the 26 Nosler suffers the same issues, but this is to be expected considering it's a "new" round on the block. Also, good luck finding a 7mm STW in a factory gun.
You can get 26 Nosler brass and ammo from Nosler fairly easily right now at least, but what about in the future?

Also, as cool and as hot as the 26 Nosler is, you're going to smoke that barrel out in no time if you reload for it. Given how the average long range shooting & reloading enthusiast loves to tinker and tweak loads to find the perfect one for their rifle, the amount of shooting it takes to find that perfect load is going to cut your 26 Nosler's barrel life by like 50% in no time.

I'd love to have a 26 Nosler because I think it's pretty **** neat on paper, but I don't like having a rifle that has a barrel life of 500-700 shots.
I'm not giving up my STW's but for last season I relied pretty much exclusively no the two .260 rem's I bought.

Their performance on game is nothing to be sneezed at, at all and ammo is common, components readily available, and they are extremely enjoyable to shoot.
 
I agree with wildrose, I've used gmx bullets which are a monolithic bullet similar to a Barnes, but now I much prefer a bullet that sheds material and creates a wide wound channel.
I'm actually the opposite. After two decades shooting primarily ballistic tips and Hornady Interbonds I've moved to the Peregrines. I get the same two to three finger exit wounds that waste very little meat and after I think 17 large game animals over the last year taken with them haven't had one take more then two steps.

The hogs, as large as over 450lbs were shot either through the shoulders or neck, deer shot either through the shoulders or hearts.

Couldn't be happier. It took a whole lot to even get me to try the mono's but Peregrine has it right.
 
bigngreen,

I don't if a 236 pound and 212 pound pig is as tough as an elk or not. But I killed two pigs that large with two shots from a .270 Win with Barnes TTSX 110 @ 3,475 feet per second. Both exited. On the 212 pounder the bullet hit the off side shoulder.

With my limited experience I would not hesitate to shoot an elk with this load.
At that weight the pigs aren't all that tough.

It's the big boars that are a challenge because of the thick cartilaginous sheath that starts behind the shoulders and runs up over the chest and lower neck.

We've killed very large boars that have soaked up lots of .223, .243, and even a few .30 caliber bullets and lots of buckshot over the years. That's why taxidermists always charge a premium when mounting them because they have to remove every bit of it and it can be as much as 3.5" thick.
 
bigngreen,

Question for you. I'll be hunting in Arizona unit 6a late bull this year. After doing some scouting of the area, shot distance will be 200 yards or less (probably closer to 100). It's just extremely dense forest. I had originally put together a 7mm Remington mag shooting 180 Hybrids. That was going to be my elk rifle, but since the shot distance is going to be very short, I'm reconsidering going to a lighter rifle. I'll be hiking a lot.

I have 2 alternatives. First is a 308 that shoots 165 Accubonds very well. It's a 20" rifle, very light and easy to pack. Second is a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140 Berger Elite Hunters. It's even lighter than the 308. Both are extremely accurate with those particular bullets. With my shot distances in mind, which would you recommend? I wouldn't shoot at the shoulder with either, but am leaning toward the 6.5 with Berger bullet. Thoughts?
You'd actually be better off with a heavier bullet at that range. The faster it's running the higher the likelihood of a bullet breaking up on impact or with very little penetration.
 
I started out my hunting career over 45 years ago, my first rifle was a 3006, followed by a 7 mag in 1980. Back then I pushed a 160 grain partition at 3100 and it killed well, well sort of. The first animal I lost was a really big black bear that I shot at around 600 yards, good shoulder hit, watched the bear roll for 200 yards, never found blood or the bear. After another big bear that I managed to kill after several shots, I decided I wanted more gun. I moved up to a 338 win mag. I never had an issue with the 338 except for a big muley that I shot when I first moved to Wyoming. 500 yard shot with a 225 gr Barnes X hit through the lungs and I followed the deer for over a mile. Finally found him the next day, bullet never expanded and penciled through both lungs.
Then I caught the ultra mag craze and bought a 338 RUM. IT FLAT KILLS EVERYTHING IT HITS! I started shooting 210 grain Barnes XLC at 3400 fps and made some outstanding kills. Then I switched to 225 gr Accubonds at 3300 and made some more outstanding kills. I tried some 250 gr partitions and made a 570 yard kill on a big 6 point bull, through the shoulder. The shoulder was shattered, but the hole into the chest cavity was only caliber size. The partition lost it's front while breaking the shoulder and the shank was all that kept going. Now I shoot 300 gr Bergers and 300 gr Accubonds. I haven't made a kill with the accubond yet, but the Bergers produce DRT 95% on elk and 100% on big muley's to date. I have recovered all but 3 of my bergers used on deer and elk. One elk was hit in the neck and the bullet wasn't recovered. Another cow elk was hit behind the shoulder and exited the neck, DRT at 550 yards. I have recovered 3 of the 300 grain Berger OTM's from big 300 lb mule deer, all on the off side under the hide, all DRT. My 300 RUM has similar results, but my 338 RUM is my go to gun. Some people can't handle the recoil, but when you want to compare terminal ballistics, 2500 ft pounds at 1000 yards can't be ignored, because it is a fight stopper. I hunt a lot in grizzly country and that is the primary role of the 300 gr accubond, as a fight stopper. If you insist on carrying a 6.5 in grizz country, I suggest having a friend with you carrying a BIG gun to save your butt if needed.
As much as we would like to say we never make bad hits on animals, it does happen and usually when the wind is blowing, the big bullets have put down elk for me when a smaller bullet wouldn't have, all because of a bad wind call. Use whatever caliber you want to hunt with, but limit your shots to good effective killing ranges with smaller bullets and calibers. Last year while cow elk hunting, a buddy killed a calf elk at around 600 yards with his 338 edge shooting 250 gr bergers. When the elk was being skinned, a 30 cal bullet from another friends 308 winchester was recovered from a front shoulder, it barely penetrated the hide and stopped, just sayin...................
 
bigngreen,

Question for you. I'll be hunting in Arizona unit 6a late bull this year. After doing some scouting of the area, shot distance will be 200 yards or less (probably closer to 100). It's just extremely dense forest. I had originally put together a 7mm Remington mag shooting 180 Hybrids. That was going to be my elk rifle, but since the shot distance is going to be very short, I'm reconsidering going to a lighter rifle. I'll be hiking a lot.

I have 2 alternatives. First is a 308 that shoots 165 Accubonds very well. It's a 20" rifle, very light and easy to pack. Second is a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140 Berger Elite Hunters. It's even lighter than the 308. Both are extremely accurate with those particular bullets. With my shot distances in mind, which would you recommend? I wouldn't shoot at the shoulder with either, but am leaning toward the 6.5 with Berger bullet. Thoughts?
The 7RM pushing a 180 Hybrid is great elk medicine. That is what I will be using on my AZ bull elk hunt at the end of this month. I have seen the effects on elk with this combo. Deadly. Golf ball sized exit hole. This shot was at about 70-75 yards.

Note the blood trail in the photo.




 
I've shot two elk in the shoulder with a 300 WBY with 168 gr TSX that I got no penetration past the shoulder because the front of the bullet expands beyond what the weight can push it though. I shoot a 270 110 TTSX at 3600 fps and there is no way in hell I'd shoot an elk in the shoulder with it, they are good antelope and deer.
I've seen so many elk wounded with light fast copper bullets that if someone shows up to shoot elk with them they shoot my rifle or go home.

A 168gr Barnes out of a 300 win mag is great close range whitetail medicine. About all they're good for though.
 
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