Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[Greyfox]

I wondered about the 215 Berger for hunting as it is not designed for it, Berger Recommends not using them for game, I see they have a 210 VLD Hunting in a 30 cal have you tried them?.

Yes, the 210 Hunting VLD's are what I have used. I suspect that they would perform better on elk sized game which provide more resistance for expansion.

 

[Canhunter35]

I heard that Berger had to thicken their copper jacket on some shells because of the faster twists guys are running, which would contribute to their bullets needing more resistance to initiate expansion

 

[Rich Coyle]

I've killed elk with 7mm and .375. The quickest kill through the body was NOT the .375. It was a Barnes 7mm TSX 130 grainer.

 

[drborsos]

Does any bullet give better terminal performance than a Barnes TSX?

 

[jshepherd61]

There are long range cartridges and there are long range hunting cartridges.

I currently own hunting rifles in two long range cartridges. And one LR competition rifle (6.5 CM Ruger Precision Rifle)

1. Browning A-Bolt in .300 Win mag

2.Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor

These hunting cartridges have almost identical ballistics BUT the .300 Win mag is obviously carrying more energy, especially at longer ranges.
Yes, a 140 gr. 6.5 CM has more energy than a 165 gr. .308 Win beyond 300 yards BUT it runs out of deer-killing energy much beyond 700 yards. (And the .308 Win ain't exactly a long range cartridge given its ballistics.) So the 6.5 CM is a "medium long range" hunting bullet. It's great for paper punching and steel rapping to 1,000 yards but lacks big game killing power at extreme distances.

So the point of this post is to say that, for me at least, while some long range cartridges like the 6.5 CM are great for smaller game like coyotes, and perhaps antelope to true long ranges, they are, at best, good for deer out to 700 yards for a clean kill. As Robert Rurark famously said, "Use enough gun".

Eric B.

Why mess with the Creedmoor or 300 win mage when you have a 7mm STW lobbing a 168gr ABLR over 83.5gr of Retumbo at 3305 fps or 7mm STW lobbing a 195gr Berger EOL over 78.2gr of Retumbo at 3075 fps and a 26 NOSLER lobbing a 142 gr ABLR over 81gr of Retumbo at 3510 fps! Pretty much covers the 0 to 1,200 yd spectrum for me. Just for the number checkers and QL quarrie'rs 29" barrels on both and velocities taken with magneto speed at 11,000 ft altitude in Colorado 25% humidity and 23 degrees F. Antelope taken at 1,183 yds

 

[Canhunter35]

Why mess with the Creedmoor or 300 win mage when you have a 7mm STW lobbing a 168gr ABLR over 83.5gr of Retumbo at 3305 fps or 7mm STW lobbing a 195gr Berger EOL over 78.2gr of Retumbo at 3075 fps and a 26 NOSLER lobbing a 142 gr ABLR over 81gr of Retumbo at 3510 fps! Pretty much covers the 0 to 1,200 yd spectrum for me. Just for the number checkers and QL quarrie'rs 29" barrels on both and velocities taken with magneto speed at 11,000 ft altitude in Colorado 25% humidity and 23 degrees F.

I'm gonna state: I have my magnums but I'm a fan of standard cartridges, especially my 308 and 6.5. But there is no argument against your statement. If u have to make one shot why mess around with others? I agree, but The only thing I can say is I shoot my standard cartridges so much practicing is I have utter confidence in my gun and load when I go hunting

 

[jshepherd61]

I'm gonna state: I have my magnums but I'm a fan of standard cartridges, especially my 308 and 6.5. But there is no argument against your statement. If u have to make one shot why mess around with others? I agree, but The only thing I can say is I shoot my standard cartridges so much practicing is I have utter confidence in my gun and load when I go hunting

Had to be a little bit of a Smart A! Lol I have my standard rounds also besides changing out the barrels on those two monsters every 5 to 600 rounds is not cheap! I need to buy stock in Bartlein!

 

[MAGA]

Why mess with the Creedmoor or 300 win mage when you have a 7mm STW lobbing a 168gr ABLR over 83.5gr of Retumbo at 3305 fps or 7mm STW lobbing a 195gr Berger EOL over 78.2gr of Retumbo at 3075 fps and a 26 NOSLER lobbing a 142 gr ABLR over 81gr of Retumbo at 3510 fps! Pretty much covers the 0 to 1,200 yd spectrum for me. Just for the number checkers and QL quarrie'rs 29" barrels on both and velocities taken with magneto speed at 11,000 ft altitude in Colorado 25% humidity and 23 degrees F. Antelope taken at 1,183 ydsView attachment 80131 View attachment 80132 View attachment 80133

7mm STW & 26 Nosler are both great rounds in their own respects, but both run into practicality issues, IMO.

7mm STW ammo is hard to come by and brass is what I'd call scarce.
Similarly, the 26 Nosler suffers the same issues, but this is to be expected considering it's a "new" round on the block. Also, good luck finding a 7mm STW in a factory gun.
You can get 26 Nosler brass and ammo from Nosler fairly easily right now at least, but what about in the future?

Also, as cool and as hot as the 26 Nosler is, you're going to smoke that barrel out in no time if you reload for it. Given how the average long range shooting & reloading enthusiast loves to tinker and tweak loads to find the perfect one for their rifle, the amount of shooting it takes to find that perfect load is going to cut your 26 Nosler's barrel life by like 50% in no time.

I'd love to have a 26 Nosler because I think it's pretty **** neat on paper, but I don't like having a rifle that has a barrel life of 500-700 shots.

 

[bigngreen]

Does any bullet give better terminal performance than a Barnes TSX?

Every bullet IMO!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Does any bullet give better terminal performance than a Barnes TSX?

Berger has given me better terminal performance than the Barnes TSX. I shot 160 Barnes TSX coated bullets in my 7mmRM for years. Then swapped to Accubonds, and then Bergers. Still have some of the others, but don't see myself swapping back anytime soon...

 

[Bravo 4]

Every bullet IMO!

I concur!

Except maybe an FMJ, but YES to every other "hunting" bullet.

 

[Rich Coyle]

MudRunner2005,

If you ran 130 or 140 instead of 160 you would have better results.

 

[Pdvdh]

Every bullet IMO!

Tee hee hee

 

[MudRunner2005]

MudRunner2005,

If you ran 130 or 140 instead of 160 you would have better results.

The reason I shot 160 TSX was because Federal used to load them in factory ammo, and I shot them with good accuracy and decent results. Then I started shooting 160 Accubonds. Then Berger 168 VLD's with the best results on game, so far out of my 7mm RemMags. Why waste my time with anything lighter than a 160-class bullet in a 7mm, when I have a .25-06 AI pushing 115 VLD's at over 3,350 FPS...