Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[Bowfishn]

My numbers are just fine I have 800 Rounds down the tube everyone with a MagnetoSpeed attached, have been doing nothing but testing RL26 with various bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor.
If you look at Bergers info for the 135 Classic Hunter you will see RL26 gives almost a full 100 fps more than any of the other powders they have listed, they got 2977 with a 135 out of a 24" tube that would be 3027 out of a 26" tube, all within pressures that are safe enough to publish for the public to use.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/6.5-Creedmoor-135gr.pdf
I had got 3054 fps with no pressure sign out of the 143 ELD-X but backed off because according to QL that speed takes almost 70K with RL26, 2998 fps is at under SAAMI max. and it also gives me the best groups and SD of 5-6 fps. I load to a COAL of 2.890" that is .020" off lands, I also started using HBN after the first 400 rounds it also helps with obtaining the 2998 fps and still stay about 60K pressure.
The 147 ELD-M is the flattest shooting of the loads tested so far under 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards and SD of 4 with an average of 15 shots.
Although RL26 has lower pressures than a powder like H4350, it has a higher Heat of Explosion and you use more grains of it because it is a slower powder, that will take it's toll on a barrel. So far with 800 rounds the lands have not advance any.
RL26 also works well in 260 Rem, 6.5-47, 243 and alot of other overbore cartridges.

 

[Canhunter35]

I also feel lr hunting is subjective concerning distance. A 700 yd shot in unfamiliar terrain that has bluffs of trees, ridges, ravines, basically confusing terrain in a gusty wind of say 7-18mph that's wants to shift directions, well it might as well be a mile.
700 yds on targets is one thing, but Mother Nature likes to keep things difficult when hunting so usually I'm more worried about getting the bullet where it needs to be at long range rather than its payload. It's just that most bullets that resist wind deflection better also increase impact velocity down range. When I consider that lots of game is harvested with an arrow that slices organs, my slow moving bullet at extended ranges should be able to do comparable damage or better as long as I get it there.

 

[WeiserBucks]

The proper bullet in the proper place

 

[JJMoody]

Bigger, faster bullets help to make the right place a bit larger than itty bitties. I may catch some flack for it, but peashooters should be left to the experts. ( I love my .340 wby).

 

[MudRunner2005]

Bigger, faster bullets help to make the right place a bit larger than itty bitties. I may catch some flack for it, but peashooters should be left to the experts. ( I love my .340 wby).

Right. And the problem is, everyone has been so hyped on the 6.5 craze, that some truly believe the 6.5 Creedmoor can do anything and everything a .300WM can do...Which is just simply not true. And while I own one, I'm not even a .300WM fan... So don't misconstrue the comparison as bias, but earlier someone mentioned comparing the 2, so that is why I'm using those.

Comparing them for 1000+ yard shooting is like saying your 4-banger stock Honda Civic can drag race in the 1/4-mile against a Challenger Hellcat or Mustang GT350R...Sure it can, but it's gonna thoroughly get its *** whooped every time. Why? Because the Honda is not designed to do that, and the Hellcat or GT350R is...

My point is, everything has a place, and everything has its limitations...Knowing those limitations and realizing that no bullet or cartridge is magic (other than the one that shot Kennedy), means admitting that a larger, heavier, higher-BC bullet will always dominate long range, over a smaller, lighter bullet that will start losing velocity and energy rapidly.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Agreed 100% ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[WildRose]

I love the good old time tested 7 mm rm, but you can't beat .308 cal holes in chest cavities ! Unless you put your time in and lots of it on the range I don't think ANYONE should be shooting at game at any distance let alone past 500 yards ! A gutshot at 800 yards is very different from a chest hit, we owe a little to the game we harvest, so get off the couch/computer and get to the shooting bench !

The difference in the holes is .62mm.

Use a quality bullet and put it where it belongs and the animal you are shooting is just as dead with either.

The 7mm magnums shoot much flatter than the .30's as well unless you step up to the really big boomers like the .300 RUM. Mind you, I have and love all three of my .300 Rum's but they don't kill any deader than my 7mm STW's especially at sub thousand yard ranges.

 

[Bravo 4]

I like the last quote from Mud, because this is from a guy that (to me) seems to flame those that go bigger.

Right. And the problem is, everyone has been so hyped on the 6.5 craze, that some truly believe the 6.5 Creedmoor can do anything and everything a .300WM can do...Which is just simply not true. And while I own one, I'm not even a .300WM fan... So don't misconstrue the comparison as bias, but earlier someone mentioned comparing the 2, so that is why I'm using those.

Comparing them for 1000+ yard shooting is like saying your 4-banger stock Honda Civic can drag race in the 1/4-mile against a Challenger Hellcat or Mustang GT350R...Sure it can, but it's gonna thoroughly get its *** whooped every time. Why? Because the Honda is not designed to do that, and the Hellcat or GT350R is...

My point is, everything has a place, and everything has its limitations...Knowing those limitations and realizing that no bullet or cartridge is magic (other than the one that shot Kennedy), means admitting that a larger, heavier, higher-BC bullet will always dominate long range, over a smaller, lighter bullet that will start losing velocity and energy rapidly.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I like the last quote from Mud, because this is from a guy that (to me) seems to flame those that go bigger.

I don't like to admit that fact very often, but it is true. Everyone knows I'm a big 7mm and .30 cal fan...I did briefly own a .338, but it was not accurate, so it got rebarreled. I really don't like the .338's or larger, but it's mainly because I have absolutely no use for something that size. And I've found that a lot of times, if people are truly honest with themselves, they realize they're trend-buying to look cool, and have no real need for something that big for what they are planning on hunting. Like when the .338 Lapua came out...I know quite a few folks who bought one, only to hate the recoil, hate buying $140 boxes of ammo, and it sat in the safe more than anything, and eventually ended up getting sold or traded.

It's a free country, and people can shoot what they want, but there are levels of ridiculousness, like hunting whitetails with a .50 BMG...Or squirrel hunting with a .270. Will it work, sure it will...It's just grotesquely overkill and completely unnecessary.

 

[Pdvdh]

It's a free country, and people can shoot what they want, but there are levels of ridiculousness, like hunting whitetails with a .50 BMG...Or squirrel hunting with a .270. Will it work, sure it will...It's just grotesquely overkill and completely unnecessary.

A 338 in Alaska is the same as a 6.5 in Alabama. Naturals...

Creased the top of the skull on a spruce grouse once with a 338 Win Mag. No different than a .22 Short or LR. Same result. Tasted the same. Thank God we live in a country with freedom of choice!

 

[bigngreen]

IMO it's the bullet that makes a chambering good for long range or not.

 

[Zen Archery]

Antelope and coyote are both thin skinned animals in my dictionary.

 

[MudRunner2005]

A 338 in Alaska is the same as a 6.5 in Alabama. Naturals...

Creased the top of the skull on a spruce grouse once with a 338 Win Mag. No different than a .22 Short or LR. Same result. Tasted the same. Thank God we live in a country with freedom of choice!

True, but over the years there have been many moose, elk, and caribou successfully harvested with 7mm's and .30 cals as well. Hell, there's one guy on here that shot a moose at 900+ yards with a 7mmRM and dropped him in his tracks. So, while it may not be the best choice for that scenario, it still proved itself formidable and relevant as a LR big game cartridge.

From what I've heard, one of the most common cartridges for moose hunting in Alaska is a .223/5.56 and a head or neck shot inside of 100 yards.

Also, for Alabama, your average hunter doesn't need more than an accurate .30-30 Winchester. Most average hunters never shoot over 100 yards at deer, around these parts. I'm one of the few that deliberately sets my hide with long-ish range (300-1000 yard) shots, because inside of 500 yards is muscle-memory, and no longer a challenge.

 

[WildRose]

Antelope and coyote are both thin skinned animals in my dictionary.

Antelope are certainly thin skinned but they have an amazing ability to soak up lead and keep running unless you take out the shoulders and/or spine. I've seen them run over a half mile with a shot that should have dropped them in their tracks and would have on any other North American game.

They are truly amazing animals.