Long range HUNTING cartridges limitations

[bigngreen]

We started shooting antelope with a 22-250 and a 60 gr Berger varmint bullet, they don't move very far, if at all even with a lung shot!!

 

[WeiserBucks]

I'll throw some fuel on this fire ! The northern European folks have been taking moose and big bears with slow , round nosed 6.5s since before my dad was in diapers. They generally hunt shorter range which helps, but large game can absolutely be taken with a lesser cartridge.

Am I going to do it? Hell no , I use the best bullets available in 7 and 30 . I reserve my 6.5x284 for deer and dogs although it is capable of more .

 

[Bowfishn]

I'll throw some fuel on this fire ! The northern European folks have been taking moose and big bears with slow , round nosed 6.5s since before my dad was in diapers. They generally hunt shorter range which helps, but large game can absolutely be taken with a lesser cartridge.

Am I going to do it? Hell no , I use the best bullets available in 7 and 30 . I reserve my 6.5x284 for deer and dogs although it is capable of more .

Yes they have and believe it or not it was with a cartridge the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser that because of it's max pressure at 51-55k psi and powders available was throwing 140 gr and 160 bullets slower than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Those bullets should have bounced off. Of coarse today with a modern firearm you can load beyond the original 6.5x55 design.
In the early 60's my Uncle took 2 Moose in Canada with his 264 Win Mag. one at 300 yards and one at 500 yards, both dropped where the were standing. At the time his 264 Mag was not the cool Cartridge to own as evey one was drinking the 7mm Mag Kool-aide.

 

[midnightmalloy]

I think the 7mm cartridges with the wider range of bullet selections, especially in the heavy options (175-195gr range) are ideal with the normal recoil most can handle. If you run a 175 around 2900 fps or more, you are able to take any North American game to 1000 yds with the exception of the big bears.

I have a 6.5 creedmoor shooting 140 elite hunters at the mid 2800 range and it's very accurate and I understand the objection to shooting it past 800 yds at game but a moderate 6.5 and a faster 7mm seem to be the ticket until you hunt the largest of North American game.

 

[HARPERC]

A friends son has been abnormally lucky in the draws, a couple of moose, bighorn, a few deer. Every thing he shot with his .338 Win Mag, turned 4 feet to the sky DRT. His first antelope took off like a scalded cat, with the better part of the off side lung hanging out.

 

[WildRose]

A friends son has been abnormally lucky in the draws, a couple of moose, bighorn, a few deer. Every thing he shot with his .338 Win Mag, turned 4 feet to the sky DRT. His first antelope took off like a scalded cat, with the better part of the off side lung hanging out.

I don't doubt it, I've seen them run with wounds that just don't make any sense at all and I've seen them shot with just about every caliber you can name. My first was killed with a .243 and refused to go down at all until the fourth shot with all being well placed in the chest. That kind of marked me for life. Most I shot with either a 25-06, .220 Swift, or 7mm RM. Never made a bad shot on any of them and at least half ran a good bit before giving it up.

I even saw one go nearly a quarter mile with both shoulders broken and an 06 through the lungs.

Tough animals and if you're smart you'll take that into consideration when pulling the trigger. If they are close to a property or zone line you can find yourself in trouble in a hurry.

Fortunately though they tend to prefer wide open country so if if one runs a long ways you can usually see them go down.

 

[Hub McCann]

A lot of good points in here. I think a lot of it comes down to retained velocity and bullet performance. Many quality bullets will expand and perform with as little as 500-600 fps in RV. And then as Frank In The Lauels mentioned...it's a matter of getting out and shooting and knowing your limitations.
One can also argue that glass is just as important as the rifle. Many scopes will not track properly when dialing, but this is probably a discussion for another time.

 

[Greyfox]

I'm predominately a deer/antelope hunter and have shot several dozen over the past 10+ years. Most of the deer are big bodied Canadian whitetail and mule deer. Ranges have run from 200-1200 yards with many falling in 400-800 yard range. I have used 308, 300WM, and 6.5x284 rifles, all loaded with high BC bullet designs. While I have read many glowing reports of the Berger 210/215's, my personal experience on medium game using either 308 or 300WM using these bullets has been only fair at best. The majority of my game shot generally had a 30 caliber hole penciled through the animals vitals. They are exceptionally accurate, and the animals are recovered/killed, but terminal performance IMO is not what I would consider optimum on medium sized game. Lung shot animals are problematic, and take too long to succumb. Using my 6.5X284 with 140 VLD Berger/JLK's driven at 3000FPS at comparable ranges generally result mostly in DRT or at worst, dead within 50 yards. I limit my shots on deer to 1000 yards, but have effectively killed antelope 100-200 yards further.

140 JLK recovered from under the far side hide of this big guy....DRT

 

[Morrison]

I love the good old time tested 7 mm rm, but you can't beat .308 cal holes in chest cavities ! Unless you put your time in and lots of it on the range I don't think ANYONE should be shooting at game at any distance let alone past 500 yards ! A gutshot at 800 yards is very different from a chest hit, we owe a little to the game we harvest, so get off the couch/computer and get to the shooting bench !

Just wanted to say thank you for your comments.....

 

[Bowfishn]

I'm predominately a deer/antelope hunter and have shot several dozen over the past 10+ years. Most of the deer are big bodied Canadian whitetail and mule deer. Ranges have run from 200-1200 yards with many falling in 400-800 yard range. I have used 308, 300WM, and 6.5x284 rifles, all loaded with high BC bullet designs. While I have read many glowing reports of the Berger 210/215's, my personal experience on medium game using either 308 or 300WM using these bullets has been only fair at best. The majority of my game shot generally had a 30 caliber hole penciled through the animals vitals. They are exceptionally accurate, and the animals are recovered/killed, but terminal performance IMO is not what I would consider optimum on medium sized game. Lung shot animals are problematic, and take too long to succumb. Using my 6.5X284 with 140 VLD Berger/JLK's driven at 3000FPS at comparable ranges generally result mostly in DRT or at worst, dead within 50 yards. I limit my shots on deer to 1000 yards, but have effectively killed antelope 100-200 yards further.

140 JLK recovered from under the far side hide of this big guy....DRT
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I wondered about the 215 Berger for hunting as it is not designed for it, Berger Recommends not using them for game, I see they have a 210 VLD Hunting in a 30 cal have you tried them?
When I shoot up the throat my Creed I will probably re chamber to 6.5-284 to have a barrel with a bit extra, maybe cut to 24 and may turn it to a thinner profile so I can use it hunting, my Creed is a Heavy Palma 26".

 

[jrock]

This is a conversation I have with myself all the time and have enjoyed this conversation. When I was younger, I thought flat trajectory and light bullets were the name of the game. Now with range finders, BDC reticles, MOA rails and the like, it makes the vertical component simple. High arc or flat one, if you do your math and practice, you know where it will hit.
I also reload and want to get the most from it. I spend lots of time researching benchrest techniques. Of course, BR guns are designed for paper punching not terminal performance. Therefore, I take what I learn there and select cartridges that provide the energy I'm looking for the type of hunting I plan to do. Personally, I like to match my gun with the size of the game to avoid extra meat damage and provide some variety in my shooting life.

 

[Canhunter35]

I'm predominately a deer/antelope hunter and have shot several dozen over the past 10+ years. Most of the deer are big bodied Canadian whitetail and mule deer. Ranges have run from 200-1200 yards with many falling in 400-800 yard range. I have used 308, 300WM, and 6.5x284 rifles, all loaded with high BC bullet designs. While I have read many glowing reports of the Berger 210/215's, my personal experience on medium game using either 308 or 300WM using these bullets has been only fair at best. The majority of my game shot generally had a 30 caliber hole penciled through the animals vitals. They are exceptionally accurate, and the animals are recovered/killed, but terminal performance IMO is not what I would consider optimum on medium sized game. Lung shot animals are problematic, and take too long to succumb. Using my 6.5X284 with 140 VLD Berger/JLK's driven at 3000FPS at comparable ranges generally result mostly in DRT or at worst, dead within 50 yards. I limit my shots on deer to 1000 yards, but have effectively killed antelope 100-200 yards further.

140 JLK recovered from under the far side hide of this big guy....DRT
View attachment 80110 View attachment 80109

I have found the same thing with 115vlds out of a 257wby great accuracy, pencil hole through the heart. Going back to ballistic tip for my 257. They utterly smash a deer.

I'm also a fan of 168 amax in my 308. Several people commented on the toughness of antelope. I shot one at 450 yds, perfect shot into shoulder in line with front leg. No exit of bullet. Antelope ran 70 yds before tangling in a barb wire fence and dying. Tough animal for being so tough

 

[drborsos]

I agree with Jim Borden, if you want to drop them in their tracks use a 300 RUM and a 180 Barnes TSX. Ballistic coefficient does not kill mammals, sectional density does.

 

[dana bodnar]

You need good knock down power for Elk and large mule deer at long range 300 wm is a great cartridge for that task. 210-g to 215-g work very well. Over the years I have seen hunters using to small of cartridges and it's no fair to the animals one shot one clean kill.