royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Aren't the 375 VM and 375 AM pretty much identical?
Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges
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Aren't the 375 VM and 375 AM pretty much identical?
D
Deleted member 71114
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The 375 Snipetac and 375 Allen Mag are similar and both use the 375 cheytac brass with an improved shoulder. The 375 VM2 is a whole different case and runs a few 100 fps faster then the Snipetac shooting the same bullet.
There are a few 375VM2s running out there so they are not totally dead, Tex
Cheers
LR3 and others- The 375 VM Mag is a case with a bigger diameter
base than our 375 HE or Mitch's 375 Lethal and is a little shorter case.
It is built on 585 African Magnum brass, Has same capacity as ours,
but is a different style 585 case than ours,
Brass availability for brass to make VM in the US is iffy right now.
For building , if doing your own best is our 375 HE, you can get reamers, cases,
getting setup with die reamers ,etc. We doing testing for speed and powders,
The 375 HE is all public domain.. Everything is public.
If wanting one built for you faster than others, go to Mitch's 375 Lethal case and his shop,
who has his case proprietary, and uses same 585HE brass to make cases,
Both 375 cases very similar, and we have big boxes of 585 cases here and
more already made in Aus, to work with. Whether 585 or making 375s or others. Ed..
base than our 375 HE or Mitch's 375 Lethal and is a little shorter case.
It is built on 585 African Magnum brass, Has same capacity as ours,
but is a different style 585 case than ours,
Brass availability for brass to make VM in the US is iffy right now.
For building , if doing your own best is our 375 HE, you can get reamers, cases,
getting setup with die reamers ,etc. We doing testing for speed and powders,
The 375 HE is all public domain.. Everything is public.
If wanting one built for you faster than others, go to Mitch's 375 Lethal case and his shop,
who has his case proprietary, and uses same 585HE brass to make cases,
Both 375 cases very similar, and we have big boxes of 585 cases here and
more already made in Aus, to work with. Whether 585 or making 375s or others. Ed..
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 71114
Guest
Ed
At least be fair about it, a person can get ahold of Bruce Bertram - Bertram brass and get the 375 VM brass in the USA. I would say that if one was looking for a rifle of this category I would get ahold of Swamplord or Mitch and runwhat they have to offer due to Viers not being as active in his shop anymore.
We all know the 375 Snipetac is a improved version of a 375 cheytac. Below would be the comparison of the 375VM2 and the Snipetac as well as a 338LM.
At least be fair about it, a person can get ahold of Bruce Bertram - Bertram brass and get the 375 VM brass in the USA. I would say that if one was looking for a rifle of this category I would get ahold of Swamplord or Mitch and runwhat they have to offer due to Viers not being as active in his shop anymore.
We all know the 375 Snipetac is a improved version of a 375 cheytac. Below would be the comparison of the 375VM2 and the Snipetac as well as a 338LM.
Attachments
Hello,
Elevation in its' simplest form as you referring to is the easiest controlled variable in the entire formula though. It is easily controlled, accounted for and offset mechanically. MV speed is useless without consistentcy. And there are lots that affect that consistentcy.
Where elevation gets swirly and complicated is the external factors that affect it such as internal pressure deviations due to case design, internal pressure deviations due to ammunition temperature, internal pressure deviations due to chamber temperature, internal pressure deviations due to powder location in the case, yada yada yada.
It is NOT as simple as running a cartridge from your brass, its just NOT.
So lets discuss some of these external factors
1. Case design affecting internal pressure deviations which affects MV deviations, which affects POI being different than the accounted for elevation requirements. Several design features account for this, such as web thickness, primer pocket, body taper, neck angle. The original CT brass had this design problem in regards to web thickness being too thin. MV deviations were close to 75fps due to that. The BMG primed CT cases had close to 100fps MV deviations due to case being weakened to fit the larger primer.
2. Ammunition temperatures affecting internal pressure deviations which affects MV deviations, which affects POI being different that the accounted for elevation requirements. A 15 degree external brass temperature on the 375CT gives about a 25fps MV deviation and we already know that just a 5fps MV deviation puts us under/over the KO2M target size.
3. Powder location affecting internal pressure deviations which affects MV deviations, which affects POI being different that the accounted for elevation requirements. Do you store your ammunition with projectile up or down before loading into chamber and are you consistent no matter which direction you take.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to external variables affecting an internal ballistic formula, that in turn affects the external ballistic solution. There is NO cartridge case design that is going to be more valuable and make more of a difference than the shooter/spotters themselves.
THEIS
Hello,
Total respect for your thoughts and upcoming testing of your thoughts but how in the world can you say that....
Can you provide the 3000m data that shows your 375HE is better than the 375CT, 375AM, 375 SnipeTac, 375VM, etc etc??
I get that you have great fondness for your project but you are constantly trying to downplay other "PROVEN" projects as if they are not as good as yours but you haven't even tested yours in the real world..just the simulation world.
Brass is easy to get for VM, brass is easy to get for SnipeTac, brass is easy to get for CT, etc etc.
Real world results are easy to get for the VM, SnipeTac, AM, and CT
You may want to let your project results speak for themselves and you speak a little less negative about everything else that has proven results already.
THEIS
longrangebo
Well-Known Member
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- Oct 8, 2005
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- 295
Wow , what a stupid reply, I have a 338-408 and shoot the 300 gr bullets at 3250 Ed is saying he gets 3300 with the 350gr. That is like huge! I am thinking about one and talked to my smith about it. He is very excited! I mean it holds 40 or 50 more grains of powder. Than again maybe your not realy into long range?
First of all nearly same case with minor shoulder differences the Lethal has
been proven at 3000 as it won at the 2 mile shoot, last summer.
They was asking about something built on our 585 case, way I read it,
and The Lethal is proprietary and they can get Mitch to make him a gun
if they can't do there own gun, and if they can do their own, best is
our 375HE, nearly identical, which is public domain, has a big brass
supply for a while, reamer info out in public,etc. Ed
been proven at 3000 as it won at the 2 mile shoot, last summer.
They was asking about something built on our 585 case, way I read it,
and The Lethal is proprietary and they can get Mitch to make him a gun
if they can't do there own gun, and if they can do their own, best is
our 375HE, nearly identical, which is public domain, has a big brass
supply for a while, reamer info out in public,etc. Ed
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I disagree, I will take every yard I can gain before going to holding at the bottom of the reticle or on an alternate target up the mountain, when we start shooting and holding of the consistency is much harder, the more rail or higher we crank an adjustable rail the hard it gets to maintain consistency behind the optic, start shaving of serious amounts of MOA starts helping IMO.
Hello,
Great points bigngreen. You bring up an additional discussion point of what it takes to make 2 mile shots...OPTICS.
I personally will take consistent MV over "just fast" MV all day long. I find it easier to have enough rail and just adjust my cheek piece than to have to get to the bottom of my scope adjustments.
We all know how easy it is to get a 5fps MV deviation which puts you off target used at KO2M so not much in the "cartridge" is going to give us more error budget than we can give ourselves by controlling some of the other external variables that control that MV deviation.
THEIS
Great points bigngreen. You bring up an additional discussion point of what it takes to make 2 mile shots...OPTICS.
I personally will take consistent MV over "just fast" MV all day long. I find it easier to have enough rail and just adjust my cheek piece than to have to get to the bottom of my scope adjustments.
We all know how easy it is to get a 5fps MV deviation which puts you off target used at KO2M so not much in the "cartridge" is going to give us more error budget than we can give ourselves by controlling some of the other external variables that control that MV deviation.
THEIS
Mitch is getting 350 gr to 3400, and both of us will do better,
We getting light bullets to 3700.
And where do you get large amounts of VM brass, or Nyati brass.
Last couple weeks we checked about 30 reloading stores and none had
VM brass, and in the 30 there was only 8 boxes of Nyatis, a 160 pcs, and
only a third had a few Cheytacs. Not thousands or big numbers.
It is a major pain getting the good important stuff in to the
US from Bruce, due to the US dot gov crap we have to go through.
We have enough 585s in the US here, to make about 5500 total, made now
and being made 375 HEs and 375 Lethals, and leave enough for the 585 HE builds.
Bruce has about 12k of 585s made setting in barrels over there, waiting. Ed
PS- those 160 Nyatis gonna get spread awful thin, by susp ... guys..
We getting light bullets to 3700.
And where do you get large amounts of VM brass, or Nyati brass.
Last couple weeks we checked about 30 reloading stores and none had
VM brass, and in the 30 there was only 8 boxes of Nyatis, a 160 pcs, and
only a third had a few Cheytacs. Not thousands or big numbers.
It is a major pain getting the good important stuff in to the
US from Bruce, due to the US dot gov crap we have to go through.
We have enough 585s in the US here, to make about 5500 total, made now
and being made 375 HEs and 375 Lethals, and leave enough for the 585 HE builds.
Bruce has about 12k of 585s made setting in barrels over there, waiting. Ed
PS- those 160 Nyatis gonna get spread awful thin, by susp ... guys..
Hello
Sounds GREAT!!
What length barrel are you all testing to get that?
Are you getting a fouling ring at about the 32-33 inch mark in the barrel?
What MV deviation numbers?
Are you witnessing any unforeseen MV deviations that you cannot account for why you getting them?
What is strain gauge showing as chamber pressures?
THEIS
