ncwg2boatguy
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Accuracy is absolute
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Let’s talk reloading
- Thread starter Mickp7
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FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
I would add, you must also have precision to shoot the groups listed.
I think you guys are missing the point. Which is that time spent practicing shooting and reading the wind is going to yield more than trying to squeak another 1/4" out of a load. Especially if you're not that good of a shooter.
I think there are two separate points being made, and neither are intended to debate against the other.
1) Shooter ability is more important than small, incremental increases in load accuracy.
2) You'll never learn your potential as a shooter if your rifle and load are not accurate.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Well said Mick
100% correct and it is very difficult to determine which one is the case unless without additional resources.
I would be willing to bet that the average shooter has at least 1/4 moa probably more variability in their shooting at distance. Also we are not trying to win a bench rest competition. We are killing stuff. 1/4 moa is not going to put you out the kill zone at distance but a bad wind call might.
Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
I get your point. Now, if you had 2 identical rifles, one that shot consistent 3/4 moa, and one that shot consistent 3/8 moa, and you were going to go practice or go hunting, which one would you take with you if you had to pick one or the other? Trying to shoot good groups with a rifle that isn't capable is a waste of time and ammo, not to mention very frustrating. It introduces to many variables. You'll never know if a bad shot was the rifle or a wind call or the loose nut behind the trigger.
Assume you have the 3/4 MOA gun, is it going to be more productive to try to get it down to a 3/8 MOA rifle and then go practice in the field or start practicing in the field right away? If you have have unlimited resources and unlimited time, of course it would be better to get the rifle as accurate as possible. If not you need to be efficient with your resources, otherwise there is a good possibility you are going to end up with a rifle you can shoot really good off the bench but not in the field.
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Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
My way of thinking is if you can't shoot small under controlled conditions off the bench, which is where you learn basic shooting skills, then you don't have the skills to make long field shots. You need to learn trigger control, breathing, sight picture and wind until they become natural and 2nd nature to the shooter. Maybe, just maybe, that 3/4" gun is really a 1/2" or 3/8" gun in the hands of another shooter. How many times on here have you seen someone with a rifle accuracy problem, and someone recommends having someone else shoot the rifle?
Have you ever been to the range with a buddy, and one or the other consistently out shoots the other with the same rifle and ammo? To me, working up a more accurate load adds to trigger time, concentration and muscle memory, not to mention reloading skills. Once you have the rifle shooting to it's full potential, then I would say go practice under field conditions. That way the shooter knows for certain that a bad shot(s) is more than likely his skills and not the equipment and can concentrate on developing his skills and technique in the field.
Any sport costs money. It also requires time and dedication to become proficient at whatever you do. If you can afford a new set of golf clubs but can't afford any balls to hit or have the time to go hit them, you're in the wrong sport. If you can afford a new fishing rod, but not fishing line or a lure or bait, you're in the wrong sport. If you can afford a drag race car and not the fuel to race it, you're in the wrong sport. If you can afford a long-range rifle and not a scope or ammo to shoot it....guess what!
An inaccurate long-range rifle doesn't teach you anything except that you can't hit what you want consistently.
If you can't shoot it accurately off the bench, going to field conditions won't all of the sudden make it better. In actuality, it makes it much worse. Don't fool yourself into thinking it won't.
You said it yourself...."of course it would be better to get the rifle as accurate as possible."
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Arkansasdad
Well-Known Member
Just read this post, complete, and after 55 yrs of reloading and shooting matches and hunting my experience is hunting bullets will not atain the degree of accuracy some claim here. A 1 moa is the best accuracy you will probably ever achieve as an average, if a lot of work goes into it. A hunting rifle equipped with a good hunting barrel, practical furniture and good bullet even with a good recipe will change from temperature and barometric pressure even if all else is the same. If you don't believe it, shoot a group every first day of the month for several months, same rifle, same recipe and then tell me how many ragged holes you shoot. I think most of these comments are from "wanna-be" Google Shooters. Not many folks hunt with a custom 18-25 Lb rifle that may cost as much as 3 months pay loaded with match grade, graded bullets set with a mike die, powder weighed to exact 1/10gr. and anal retentive cases. It's rare that top shooters turn out .5 moa consistently. They have good days and bad. Happy shooting.
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I can't wrap my head around this. I spend lots of time brass prepping, testing bullet seating depth, neck tension, powder charge weight, and so on. And I find it absolutely makes a huge difference. When I say a "huge" difference, I mean going from say, 1.5" groups, down to 1/2".
I just wasted an hour and 9 minutes.
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
I've read a lot of good responses here but one I rarely see mentioned it that a gun that is finicky with loads is a waste of time if you're trying to get small groups and every time humidity, temperature and transporting the rifle much enter into the equation you're sure to end up monumentally frustrated.
If you don't have a quality barrel, a good stiff stock, a high quality bedding job that is done by someone that builds accurate rifles and a good trigger then you'll end up continually frustrated.
Start there first and foremost and then you will usually find that you have a rifle that is way easier to load for and that will stay consistent season to season and condition to condition.
When I finally broke down and hired a well known long range competitor that had his own gunsmithing business to rebarrel a few of my rifles and bed the actions I suddenly had several rifles that could achieve tiny groups even with factory ammo. Handloading suddenly made me feel like a hero and I stopped chasing accuracy like a dog chasing his tail.
It became easy to achieve sub .5moa groups with a minimum of load development and my consistency shot way up through the roof in almost any condition.
BTW.... I've been shooting long enough to not have to worry about super high quality triggers but having a good one set at around 2 pounds seems to be good enough for me. My gunsmith likes Timney and Jewell and that's been what has ended up in most of my rifles in the last few years.
OH... One more thing... Having a high quality scope with very reliable click adjustments that stay once set like Nightforce has helped me a lot too...
One more thing... Just because a stock has aluminum bedding blocks doesn't mean you don't need to bed the action anyway. A quality skim bed on top of the aluminum bedding block in an HS Precision stock can yield consistency that is pretty hard to believe.
If you don't have a quality barrel, a good stiff stock, a high quality bedding job that is done by someone that builds accurate rifles and a good trigger then you'll end up continually frustrated.
Start there first and foremost and then you will usually find that you have a rifle that is way easier to load for and that will stay consistent season to season and condition to condition.
When I finally broke down and hired a well known long range competitor that had his own gunsmithing business to rebarrel a few of my rifles and bed the actions I suddenly had several rifles that could achieve tiny groups even with factory ammo. Handloading suddenly made me feel like a hero and I stopped chasing accuracy like a dog chasing his tail.
It became easy to achieve sub .5moa groups with a minimum of load development and my consistency shot way up through the roof in almost any condition.
BTW.... I've been shooting long enough to not have to worry about super high quality triggers but having a good one set at around 2 pounds seems to be good enough for me. My gunsmith likes Timney and Jewell and that's been what has ended up in most of my rifles in the last few years.
OH... One more thing... Having a high quality scope with very reliable click adjustments that stay once set like Nightforce has helped me a lot too...
One more thing... Just because a stock has aluminum bedding blocks doesn't mean you don't need to bed the action anyway. A quality skim bed on top of the aluminum bedding block in an HS Precision stock can yield consistency that is pretty hard to believe.
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
This
