nealm66
Well-Known Member
Except Pointman had to bring up the 25-06 and I got really squirreled
Let’s talk reloading
- Thread starter Mickp7
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
I have an AMP annealer. Henderson Trimmer. FX 120i scale. Primal Rights primer seater. SAC and bullet central dies. All SAC comparator gauges. Expensive calipers. Ect.
It's not like I'm take a piece of virgin brass and putting a bullet in it with a sludge hammer and saying "that's good enough" lol.
I'm just showing what's capable and achievable with good equipment, both rifle and reloading equipment, prior to any tuning. And then saying I've tried all kinds of tuning, and personally not seen anything significant enough to make me want to keep doing it really.
It's not like I'm take a piece of virgin brass and putting a bullet in it with a sludge hammer and saying "that's good enough" lol.
I'm just showing what's capable and achievable with good equipment, both rifle and reloading equipment, prior to any tuning. And then saying I've tried all kinds of tuning, and personally not seen anything significant enough to make me want to keep doing it really.
Hondo64d
Well-Known Member
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Agreed! It shot a TON of small 3-5 shot groups. But I never did do a 20 shot group with it. It was when I thought I was going to shoot some PRS stuff, but ended up realizing I really just like to kill stuff. So I sold it as a complete kit with 200 loaded rounds to a buddy, because I didn't like the chassis platform and it was pretty heavy.
Hondo64d
Well-Known Member
I think that the main point the Hornady guys are making in this episode and others is that if you aren't shooting a large enough sample size with each change in your load, you are largely wasting your time, effort and components, AND, if you do shoot a statistically relevant sample size, the changes you make to your load are not having nearly as big an effect on group size as what you might expect.
I educated myself on sample size years ago after wondering why my rifles might give me consistently small three shot groups but those groups would all have a slightly different POI, or the groups would not be that great, having put two in the same hole and one out. When I overlaid those groups I saw that what my load actually did was have a nice round composite group of a hair over MOA.
I would love to see what would happen to everyone's pet load if they actually posted a 20 round composite group of said load. You don't have to burn out your barrel's throat doing it. Just shoot three or five at a time, letting the barrel cool between each subset, putting subsequent subsets at the same POA. I've done it and it's an eye opener for sure.
John
I educated myself on sample size years ago after wondering why my rifles might give me consistently small three shot groups but those groups would all have a slightly different POI, or the groups would not be that great, having put two in the same hole and one out. When I overlaid those groups I saw that what my load actually did was have a nice round composite group of a hair over MOA.
I would love to see what would happen to everyone's pet load if they actually posted a 20 round composite group of said load. You don't have to burn out your barrel's throat doing it. Just shoot three or five at a time, letting the barrel cool between each subset, putting subsequent subsets at the same POA. I've done it and it's an eye opener for sure.
John
Ckleeves
Well-Known Member
What I really want to see is a rifle that shoots in the .2's consistently produce more hits than a rifle that shoots .8 in actual FIELD positions. That .6 difference isn't why we miss.
If there was a genie that granted shooting wishes and I had the choice between a rifle that shot 1 moa and every shot I took for the rest of my life was in zero wind whatsoever OR a magic rifle that shot .1 all the time but wind stayed like it is now I'm taking the 1 moa rifle and no wind!
If there was a genie that granted shooting wishes and I had the choice between a rifle that shot 1 moa and every shot I took for the rest of my life was in zero wind whatsoever OR a magic rifle that shot .1 all the time but wind stayed like it is now I'm taking the 1 moa rifle and no wind!
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Hardly anyone is actually willing to do this. Everything will get blamed on this condition or that didn't feel right when I pulled the trigger, and well I had to break and rebuild my position 10 times, "you only need three shots to kill an animal" ect. When in reality that's just how you, and the rifle shoot, on average. Over a decent course of fire. You're a system. You can say your rifle is 1/4 MOA, but if every time you get behind it, that 1/4 MOA three shot group lands in a different area of the bullseye, in similar conditions. Then your rifle AND YOU together are 3/4" MOA. Which is actually exceptional for a 20 shot group.
Here is a 30 shot group with a 300 NMI. Shot over the course of 2 hours. Ten 3 shot groups with plenty of cooling between groups. So I broke and rebuilt my position 10 times. Me, and this rifle, shoot 3/4 MOA, repeatedly. But the gun has shot plenty of .4 MOA 5 shot groups as well.
Repeatedly shooting 3 and 5 shot groups with the same exact load for 30 rounds will definitely give you a perspective on the dispersion of those small sample sizes.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
I've watched the video and went through that thread before. Such great info! Was nice to back through it and freshen up! Those dudes certainly know how to shoot and tune a rifle to it's absolute maximum performance
I recently was working on loads for a 7mag remage we spun together for my son. Once we found a load we shot ten 3 shot groups. Some of those groups were literally .2. Some were .9. The average of all groups was .6. Was it the shooter. A little wind or just normal load variation. Not sure but we will take that.
Nice! I've been working on a 7mm Rem Mag and I finally got it to shoot hole in a hole at 100. 3 shot groups. Then moved to 200 and got 1/4" groups. Then I shot it again a day later and got the same thing. It like N560 and 180 Berger VLD Hybrids. I couldn't get SST's or Barnes TTSX to shoot like that.
What I really, really like about the load is the consistency of the first round, cold bore shot. I don't need to shoot 10 shots to see how the load performs when it does the same thing with the first shot every time. It's a hunting rifle. A plain ole Remington Sendero. What I really, really don't like about the load is the fact that if I miss, with that load, at whatever range I shoot at... it's on me.
"A little wind or just normal load variation". I've decided that normal variation is pretty much the norm for the kind of rifles I shoot. A puff of wind affects the shot, the G1/G7 changes with air density and that's never constant, powder isn't perfectly consistent, and neither is the explosion that launches the bullet. As the barrel heats that changes things. Mirage adds "character" to every situation
I shoot NRL22. I shoot it poorly. I was using Eley Tenex at about $32 per 50. I have recently switched to Eley Match at about $17 per 50. I could not shoot well enough to really tell the difference. I can not shoot better than my Tikka T1X can. We are shooting steel not bullseye targets. My own ability combined with shooting over barriers, environmental factors... That is why I miss a .25" piece of steel at 35 yards. It is not the minute difference between the Tenex and the match.
Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
I disagree with line of thinking. If you don't have equipment that is capable of shooting a 4" group at 800 yards, then you will never be able to accomplish that goal. If 3/4" gun is only capable of a 6" group at 800, you'll never learn the skills to shoot smaller than that. Accuracy trumps Everything!
Last edited:
ncwg2boatguy
Well-Known Member
Agree with your reply but want to add most guy I know and shoot PRS with run sub.5 moa loads. They are really OCD about load development also.
