Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
I made that saying originally.
lmao
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Improving the 308 Win performance
- Thread starter nralifer
- Start date
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lmaonralifer
Well-Known Member
I understood it as " no replacement for displacement."I always thought it was "there's no replacement for cubic displacement".
but I'm old and don't remember well anymore.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Yep
gunner1stclass
Well-Known Member
I shoot sierra 75 gainers out of my 257wby ...... lots of vapor trails in the morning
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
No substitute for cubic inches in all sorts of places.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting reply. Badlands bullets all have higher BCs that the equivalent weight bullet of the brands you mentioned. Their expansion also is very reliable without the explosive effects that needlessly destroys meat. We designed them specifically to beat our competitors BCs. What's interesting about BC is that high BC allows the shooter to use a lower MV if the accuracy node for that barrel is there with out sacrificing improvements in trajectories. New "long range" cartridges like the 6.8 Western, the marketing alludes to facilitating the use of "high BC bullets" so Badlands bullets should be able to extend the effective range of those cartridges.
LRNut
Well-Known Member
I quickly read through this thread so I might have missed it, but no one has mentioned wind drift. I shoot a .308 quite a bit; it is my favorite 500 yard gong rifle, and I might bring one to CO next time I drive from AZ, but I gave up on it long ago when trying to hit small targets at 700 yards and beyond. Wind is a killer.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, I wonder how many rounds some of you have shot at long range in the mountainous west. It isn't the same as shooting in the Midwest or East. At 900 yards you have to estimate the wind absolutely perfectly, and it cannot change during the TOF, to hit a 10" circle at 900 yards - no matter how accurate your rifle. Unlike trying to become fit in the flatlands for a mountain hunt, there is nothing you can IMO to prepare for the shifting winds and effects of terrain than shooting in it constantly.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, I wonder how many rounds some of you have shot at long range in the mountainous west. It isn't the same as shooting in the Midwest or East. At 900 yards you have to estimate the wind absolutely perfectly, and it cannot change during the TOF, to hit a 10" circle at 900 yards - no matter how accurate your rifle. Unlike trying to become fit in the flatlands for a mountain hunt, there is nothing you can IMO to prepare for the shifting winds and effects of terrain than shooting in it constantly.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
By no means am I approving the 308 as a "Go Too" elk cartridge but I too have shot this cartridge alot in years past. In fact, It was one that I built to shoot prairie dogs years ago shooting the 185 VLDs. Confirmed kills at up 1200 yards on dogs with that rifle we're fairly regular. Winds were present but after confirming wind and adjusting for them, it wasn't hard hitting small targets for me at 800-1200 yards. No, it didn't happen with every trigger pull but I think in the couple days that I used that for the extended range dog shooting, I killed 7 at over 1K. All were one or two shot kills. BC isn't great with the 185s but the weight helped and shooting when wind was down or early and late made it a bit easier. Today my choice for those kinds of shots on G hogs or P dogs is the heavier .25 or .26 caliber bullets.
mntnflyr4fun
Well-Known Member
Just bring enough gun and be over it.....
A gun for elk doesn't need the minimum amount of energy left to kill when it reaches the target, it needs enough energy for a clean kill with a bad hit.
Where I hunt on the Oregon Coast (for over 50years), I started out with a 06', migrated to a 300WM and for the last 15years have used a 338WM with 250gr NAB and for long range, (beyond 600yds) 265gr. NABLR. It stops em in their tracks.
When I shoot an elk 500+ yds away, I want it DRT, not in the bottom of a rainforest canyon after running 1/4mi. deeper into the hole than where I shot it.
It is interesting what people think they can accomplish with minimum cal. on large game, Whats the point?
.308 is a great cartridge, has spawned several highly successful children, but is not a qualified 500yd elk gun with any bullet under normal hunting conditions. IMHO
A gun for elk doesn't need the minimum amount of energy left to kill when it reaches the target, it needs enough energy for a clean kill with a bad hit.
Where I hunt on the Oregon Coast (for over 50years), I started out with a 06', migrated to a 300WM and for the last 15years have used a 338WM with 250gr NAB and for long range, (beyond 600yds) 265gr. NABLR. It stops em in their tracks.
When I shoot an elk 500+ yds away, I want it DRT, not in the bottom of a rainforest canyon after running 1/4mi. deeper into the hole than where I shot it.
It is interesting what people think they can accomplish with minimum cal. on large game, Whats the point?
.308 is a great cartridge, has spawned several highly successful children, but is not a qualified 500yd elk gun with any bullet under normal hunting conditions. IMHO
nralifer
Well-Known Member
The mid west is not exactly flat, wind is quite variable and there are many instances where the wind at the shooter is going the opposite direction at the target. Low BC bullets have more wind drift than high BC bullets. I routinely for my long range testing shoot at 1300 yds. It's not hard to hit 6-7" circles at 1300 yds with my 338. 900 yd shots are not difficult with supersonic bullets. Have had a lot of fun hitting 10" targets at 500-700 yds with subsonic 308 bullets
You remember fine. It's all the same thing. I'm old too.I always thought it was "there's no replacement for cubic displacement".
but I'm old and don't remember well anymore.
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
For me it's all about tinkering around to see what a caliber is capable of. I have a 300 Rum that is my go to for any heavy game at long range. I run anything from a 210 to a 230 grain in it. But I also have a 7-08 shorting 168 that I would shoot to some longer than normal (long range) distance if it's my only shot and it's a good broad side shot. Not only velocity, but bullet construction kills also. How well does a bullet do at slower than normal velocity. What is it capable of at a given distance. The ABLR is supposed to open up at 1300fps. Not going that slow but 1600fps has been proven to be reliable. Setting here in meridian Idaho that puts me today at 940yards according to the applied ballistic app. There are also several 10 and 20% gel test on YouTube to show what they do at 1600fps or lower.
mntnflyr4fun
Well-Known Member
I get the whole tinkering thing. If you can find the components these days to tinker then tinker. The OP said the following about the .308 "
"This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so." speaking about a 150gr. bullet...... When I hear nonsense like this it makes my skin crawl because of one person thinks it, another person is bound to try it and hitting an elk at 900 yds and killing said elk are two different things. Tinkering and documenting performance is a great pastime, when the leap gets made to shooting 600-800# animals in a long range hunting environment I feel obligated to comment to the contrary as needed. In my early days of shooting reloads using 180gr. '06' and 300winmag ammo, I was in on many bulls that would soak up 5 or 6 well placed shots at 350yds+ and cover lots of ground before finally succumbing. I am a big fan of tinkering and long range hunting, but hunting isn't an experiment on live targets. As stated above a .22lr will kill and elk, doesn't mean someone should be hunting with it....nuff said.
bert2368
Well-Known Member
The OP manufactures/sells long range bullets?
I'm totally willing to try working up loads for .308, I'll provide the powder and other components if he's willing to send me a few hundred bullets (to start, might need more if he really needs to hit that 2900 fps with a 178gr).
Got my own range, several .308 rifles and some spare time until Spring. Been reloading since 1980.
I'm totally willing to try working up loads for .308, I'll provide the powder and other components if he's willing to send me a few hundred bullets (to start, might need more if he really needs to hit that 2900 fps with a 178gr).
Got my own range, several .308 rifles and some spare time until Spring. Been reloading since 1980.
